Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:Slatewriter, the comments I was reading came from people who were there and who thought the joke was grossly inappropriate in a spiritual organisations AGM. So not speculation.

Admin wrote:As I understand although there was no increase in the tenure but electronic voting was waved through. Given this indicates the intentions of members it is highly unlikely Companies House would now call the election invalid. So we can assume that the President is safely in place for the next two years. On the other hand, I had heard David Bruton's independent complaints committee may have been approved.

I expected no comments on legal matters clearly there was legal reasons for being unable to comment.

More interestingly, unless something happened on Sunday it sounds like the President refrained from using some of the extreme powers granted by the Bye Laws.

Sounding more like a draw overall. But leaving the President comfortably in charge, even if some things may not have gone entirely as she wished.

Except it does appear to leave the 20 Tutors in a difficult spot

mac wrote:

Admin wrote:As I understand although there was no increase in the tenure but electronic voting was waved through. Given this indicates the intentions of members it is highly unlikely Companies House would now call the election invalid. So we can assume that the President is safely in place for the next two years. On the other hand, I had heard David Bruton's independent complaints committee may have been approved.

I expected no comments on legal matters clearly there was legal reasons for being unable to comment.

More interestingly, unless something happened on Sunday it sounds like the President refrained from using some of the extreme powers granted by the Bye Laws.

Sounding more like a draw overall. But leaving the President comfortably in charge, even if some things may not have gone entirely as she wished.

Except it does appear to leave the 20 Tutors in a difficult spot

I didn't see any need for the President to exercise any of the new Bye Law powers.  Folk there seemed pretty happy with what she'd said.  The complaints procedure looked a no-brainer avoiding any possibility of bias.  The legal situation for the 20 tutors will be sorted using legal means I expect - they weren't anyway relevant to the business tabled for the AGM.  The electronic voting - along with postal voting - seemed an obvious benefit to the Union hence approved.  You're thinking now, then, that it's a done deal that Companies House would consider no reason for their considering taking action.  It was probably always a long shot but now it's done with.  I'll predict that the fundraising regulator won't see a reason to get involved.  All sorted!

notabigjump wrote:I have to wonder if the NDA is still valid to be honest. The SNU divulged their account publicly and some of Scott Milligan's video involved comments and references to the dispute publicly. Added to this, the incident of removing their photos and erasing their bios, I'd say the SNU has made a significant amount of information be publicly known.

There came a point where the silence was one-sided and unfair. The tutors didn't give specifics and behaved honourably within the framework of the NDA. Another issue, is that the complaints committee involved in the NDA was disbanded when it found in their favour. So there is another question mark about how valid that NDA really is now.

The mediation company will no doubt take some time to report and the investigation continues.

Ongoing is the court case brought about by an individual member against the president and NEC.

Despite the AGM and all who found it positive, there is still much to resolve and some tough times ahead. The reported resignations of the Head of Governance, the General Manager and the chairman of the education committee are also concerns.

I also noticed at the AGM the blatant attacks by the president's son on the Vice President Julia Almond. It has been no secret the president wanted the other candidate in the election to win the seat of Vice President. Yet he took at least 2 opportunities to publicly attack her record and competency and she replied to him very well. I have a recording I can check, and at one point he appeared to state he was an MP. There is no MP in any party in the HOC with his name at all. I will check the recording as it was close to the the end of business on saturday, but it made my ears prick up after a long day!

Admin wrote:Mac,

Whilst I agree with much of your post,  yes Companies House are out, fundraisers would not act, it's appropriate for charities to seek funds, even if they have plenty and the Charities commission has insufficient resources to chase legal actions charities take, I do not doubt the regulators have a red tick against the SNU.

However it's not all over, I doubt the 20 tutors can reconcile the differences in which case no NDA could be enforced if they refuse compensation.

The next is that the President must be furious, her big sales issue was a new complaints system fit for the purpose and David Britons motion has overwritten this.

I suspect this story may run on, unless the President decides up on a way forward of reconciliation to enhance, promote and develop Spiritualism .

Admin wrote:I tried to hold my breath; I am on life support now; just like Modern Spiritualism.

Maybe someone may remember the meaning and implications of our philosophy and Principles.

Janhar wrote:This is a link to Scott Milligan’s video and the tutor dispute is mentioned. I think people who have written or read comments about him might want to hear what he says.  

https://m.facebook.com/groups/462997674644795/permalink/1597107694567115/?

MoMer wrote:All we have left, is hope for some of the legal processes to put a stop to the damage being done. I try to live by the philosophy of  “expect nothing, hope for much” but, right now I’m not even sure that I’m hopeful.  I agree with what you have said notabigjump, so much is still to be resolved and while a lot seemed happy, there are still a lot of unhappy members. I hope that the tutors are able to speak out at some point, so that people can see the truth, I hope that the legal matter with the IM is resolved soon, for their sake, they deserve to be heard. We hear so many instances of bullying and cronyism that is can’t be just accepted and moved on from. Take away the presidency, JW is a minister of Spiritualism, if we can’t expect empathy and compassion from a minister of religion, even when they disagree with you, then we are doomed.

I too heard JW’s son take swipes at  Vice President,  Minister Julia Almond, I also heard him take cheap shots at Minister Pat Seymour and Minister David Bruton, I didn’t hear him say that he is an MP but I may have been distracted at the time. All in all, the cheap shots and challenges, while disappointing were no surprise.  I’ve just come away from it all feeling more despondent than I did before. I understand the apathy of a lot of members, I have been feeling it myself for a while but,  I am passionate about Spirit, if not so much about Spiritualism at the moment.

I will pray and hope for some humility to become apparent (I saw none over the last two days) I pray that empathy and compassion be present again, for the love and truth of God and Spirit to be that guide and that light. For now, I am going to bow out,  while holding space and prayer for a reunited Union and for truth to prevail.

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:This is a link to Scott Milligan’s video and the tutor dispute is mentioned. I think people who have written or read comments about him might want to hear what he says.  

https://m.facebook.com/groups/462997674644795/permalink/1597107694567115/?

Isn't this a video primarily about his mediumship?  I watched/listened to it a few days back but don't remember anything of significance about the tutors' situation....

mac wrote:quote: "I understand the apathy of a lot of members, I have been feeling it myself for a while but, I am passionate about Spirit, if not so much about Spiritualism at the moment."

Please do remember that (Modern) Spiritualism ISN'T the same as the Spiritualists' National Union or the Arthur Findlay College.  I've lived for 40 years as a Spiritualist but without ever needing the latter.  I became an Independent Member by choice and from curiosity.  

Fair point, my comment should have said that I am not passionate about SNU Spiritualism at the moment. I will always be a Spiritualist, regardless of any membership. I guess in my haste to post I missed some relevant points. Thank you, Mac for pointing that out.

Let's also not forget that churches do not HAVE to be affiliated to the SNU and those who serve the spirit do not HAVE to be tutored at the Findlay College or indeed elsewhere.

It would seem that a lot of independent churches and centres fare better than a lot of SNU ones, maybe that should tell us something. You’re right, you don’t have to be taught at the AFC either, to be tutored there was a choice for me because, I value the standards of the tutors that I chose, they inspire me to want to do the best job that I can for Spirit. It is not for everyone though.

As for a lot of members' (suggested) apathy maybe like myself they're simply uninterested in the SNU?

Janhar wrote:

Isn't this a video primarily about his mediumship?  I watched/listened to it a few days back but don't remember anything of significance about the tutors' situation....

If you listen through the entire thing....

..... there are a couple of references to the dispute one quite near the beginning where he describes why he believes these stories about him are coming out at this time and another near the end where he says a couple of people who have withdrawn from the organisation are saying untruthful  things about him. It is not referred to as a tutor dispute but the references are clear, as is his entire video.

He also talks about the wadding and the red thread story and also about when he withdrew from the college in 2014 because he was unable to meet their requirements at the time, and says he is still good friends with some of the individuals at the meeting where this was decided and that it was all minuted so that people can check.

This will be my last word on Scott Milligan on this forum as I have nothing to add. I believe it is an appropriate link to place in this thread because he does reference the tutor situation in it from the perspective of how this has impacted on him.

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:This is a link to Scott Milligan’s video and the tutor dispute is mentioned. I think people who have written or read comments about him might want to hear what he says.  

https://m.facebook.com/groups/462997674644795/permalink/1597107694567115/?

Isn't this a video primarily about his mediumship?  I watched/listened to it a few days back but don't remember anything of significance about the tutors' situation....

If you listen through the entire thing....

I did - the whole boring thing.

..... there are a couple of references to the dispute one quite near the beginning where he describes why he believes these stories about him are coming out at this time and another near the end where he says a couple of people who have withdrawn from the organisation are saying untruthful  things about him. It is not referred to as a tutor dispute but the references are clear, as is his entire video.

I didn't say he hadn't said ANYTHING but only that I hadn't remembered anything of significance about the tutors' situation.

He also talks about the wadding and the red thread story and also about when he withdrew from the college in 2014 because he was unable to meet their requirements at the time, and says he is still good friends with some of the individuals at the meeting where this was decided and that it was all minuted so that people can check.

He did indeed relate what you've said but I HADN'T made any mention of those details.....  And as I pointed out/asked earlier, it was primarily a lecture to listeners about the events we've actually mentioned/discussed elsewhere in a separate thread.  He may have much more other material he could add by joining us here and I for one would be pleased to read about it .

This will be my last word on Scott Milligan on this forum as I have nothing to add. I believe it is an appropriate link to place in this thread because he does reference the tutor situation in it from the perspective of how this has impacted on him.

Well strictly this thread was never about Scott Milligan anyway.  

I saw his video lecture as more an attempt to present his own recollections of the events from 10 years ago and much less to do with the current situation involving the 20 tutors, the ones recently mistreated as folk generally appear to see the situation.  Scott would be welcome here I feel sure and he could refute anything that's wrong about what happened.

I have actually just come on here intending to add to my original post, (with the link), that I have just seen that the video link was recently posted and discussed in the Scott Milligan thread. As I do not  follow that  thread I was unaware and would not have bothered to post it had I realised you had all seen it.

Please do remember that (Modern) Spiritualism ISN'T the same as the Spiritualists' National Union or the Arthur Findlay College.  I've lived for 40 years as a Spiritualist but without ever needing the latter.  I became an Independent Member by choice and from curiosity.  

Fair point, my comment should have said that I am not passionate about SNU Spiritualism at the moment. I will always be a Spiritualist, regardless of any membership. I guess in my haste to post I missed some relevant points. Thank you, Mac for pointing that out.

not at all  

Let's also not forget that churches do not HAVE to be affiliated to the SNU and those who serve the spirit do not HAVE to be tutored at the Findlay College or indeed elsewhere.

It would seem that a lot of independent churches and centres fare better than a lot of SNU ones, maybe that should tell us something. You’re right, you don’t have to be taught at the AFC either, to be tutored there was a choice for me because, I value the standards of the tutors that I chose, they inspire me to want to do the best job that I can for Spirit. It is not for everyone though.

As for a lot of members' (suggested) apathy maybe like myself they're simply uninterested in the SNU?

Again, a very fair point but my question would be, why retain a membership to something you are not interested in?  It’s of course a rhetorical question, only they can answer