Re: Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

by MoMer Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:49 pm

mac wrote:

Please do remember that (Modern) Spiritualism ISN'T the same as the Spiritualists' National Union or the Arthur Findlay College. I've lived for 40 years as a Spiritualist but without ever needing the latter. I became an Independent Member by choice and from curiosity.

Fair point, my comment should have said that I am not passionate about SNU Spiritualism at the moment. I will always be a Spiritualist, regardless of any membership. I guess in my haste to post I missed some relevant points. Thank you, Mac for pointing that out.
not at all

Let's also not forget that churches do not HAVE to be affiliated to the SNU and those who serve the spirit do not HAVE to be tutored at the Findlay College or indeed elsewhere.

It would seem that a lot of independent churches and centres fare better than a lot of SNU ones, maybe that should tell us something. You’re right, you don’t have to be taught at the AFC either, to be tutored there was a choice for me because, I value the standards of the tutors that I chose, they inspire me to want to do the best job that I can for Spirit. It is not for everyone though.
Yes, indeed, independents might be shaking their heads in disbelief at the shenanigans. I absolutely respect and agree though with all your points about AFC and the tutors there.

As for a lot of members' (suggested) apathy maybe like myself they're simply uninterested in the SNU?

Again, a very fair point but my question would be, why retain a membership to something you are not interested in? It’s of course a rhetorical question, only they can answer

Well it may be rhetorical but - in a way similar to my own they may choose to maintain a watching brief over what's going on under the banner of Spiritualism. tbc

But you can find that all out here for free! Haha. Even as a member I don’t feel we find out fully what’s going on, only what they want us to know, until there is a massive dispute, as there has been recently, in which case, everyone find out what’s going on. I guess it’s easy for me to say because, I have many friends within the union, so I’d hear things anyway.

by mac Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:57 pm

Re my posting just above, I lost a piece of it so I've added it here, separately.

mea culpa - I should have said uninterested in the boring stuff in the SNU.....

One reason may be that members are uninterested in the background stuff, the day-to-day stuff of the Union but they may well be interested in the "substantive stuff". Take for example my own interests. I am happy to pay my few quid to be an I.M. because I am very interested in the whole subject of healing and how it's portrayed. I want to see change.

I am also very interested in seeing the outdated English language found in the Seven Principles being modernised. Parts of The Seven Principles jar and offend my reason. I want to see change.

I'd like to offer my thoughts on their modification - as someone mentioned in the AGM for example - and to vote on possible changes. All the above is within the purview of the officers of the SNU and indeed only within their purview. So if I remain an I.M. it will be for those and maybe other reasons. Also because I want to see fairness and justice for the tutors - I want to know in detail what happened leaving them so upset and unhappy that they were prepared to walk away from what was their lives.....

by mac Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:01 pm

MoMer wrote:

But you can find that all out here for free! Haha. Even as a member I don’t feel we find out fully what’s going on, only what they want us to know, until there is a massive dispute, as there has been recently, in which case, everyone find out what’s going on. I guess it’s easy for me to say because, I have many friends within the union, so I’d hear things anyway.

I will only ever hear one or maybe a couple of versions about what's been going on and likely only for a short while longer anyway. There's usually just me and Jim here writing on these pages.

by mac Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:14 pm

MoMer wrote:

But you can find that all out here for free! Haha. Even as a member I don’t feel we find out fully what’s going on, only what they want us to know, until there is a massive dispute, as there has been recently, in which case, everyone find out what’s going on. I guess it’s easy for me to say because, I have many friends within the union, so I’d hear things anyway.

As was mentioned in the AGM proceedings by the President, the guy responsible for updating the SNU website - he was engaged a couple of years ago - has effectively been stopped by the NEC for various reasons.

The crappy outdated website looks amateurish and is a disgrace to a body like the SNU - it needs scrapping and starting afresh! THEN we need to see a 'News' section on it that's updated and actually does carry news. That way folk like me who DON'T have friends in the Union who are 'in the know' to inform us, will also be able to find out what's going on, what has been going on and what will be going on in the future.

I had wondered if I could be bothered remaining a member or if I should vote with my feet over all I've heard this year but now I'm determined I WON'T let my I.M. lapse. I'm gonna keep watching and commenting and who knows? Just maybe I will make a difference in some way!

by Janhar Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:48 pm

Copy paste from mac
I saw his video lecture as more an attempt to present his own recollections of the events from 10 years ago and much
less to do with the current situation involving the 20 tutors, the ones recently mistreated as folk generally appear to see the situation. Scott would be welcome here I feel sure and he could refute anything that's wrong about what happened.[/color][/quote]

My reply
Mac, you asked a very reasonable question about what was relevant in the video which I gave a reply to. I was not antagonistic to your question at all. I am sorry if you thought that.
I only realised about an hour ago that this video link has already been discussed in another thread, one I do not usually follow. I would not have posted it had I realised that because you have already discussed it. The Scott discussion is not one I want to join although I find it interesting to read.
I have nothing further to add to anything, in either thread, right now but if I obtain any information I think some of you should know I will post it. Otherwise, I will just read other people’s comments with interest.
One of those 20 tutors is very dear to me because of their outstanding mediumship which I have personally benefited from and also for their likeability. Some of the others I have worked with on courses years ago and have great respect for. I know their complaint is valid and there has been a great injustice. This does not mean I will turn a deaf ear to anyone who says otherwise. I have nothing more to discuss on this subject until we have some facts.
I promise though that if I hear an announcement or get given a “fact” I will share it. Meanwhile I will be reading your comments with interest and, I’m sure, with a few “likes”here and there.

by mac Mon Sep 30, 2024 5:09 pm

Janhar wrote:Copy paste from mac
I saw his video lecture as more an attempt to present his own recollections of the events from 10 years ago and much less to do with the current situation involving the 20 tutors, the ones recently mistreated as folk generally appear to see the situation. Scott would be welcome here I feel sure and he could refute anything that's wrong about what happened.

My reply
Mac, you asked a very reasonable question about what was relevant in the video which I gave a reply to. I was not antagonistic to your question at all. I am sorry if you thought that.

thank you

I had not thought that for one moment but truly I did not see Scott's message as having any significance to the tutors dispute with the bods in charge at the SNU. It's plainly a sensitive issue for you because one of those tutors is your friend. Please don't misunderstand my position - I am VERY supportive of their position because I suspect they've been dumped on and pushed into taking the action they did. But only when we have official details of the complaints raised by them will I be able to judge. Until then I know only the leaked ones and what others have been saying and for me that's no basis on which I can reach conclusions.

I do hope those tutors get their day to speak out and that if misdeeds are evident I hope those responsible can be made to account for them.

This thread has had more activity than any I can recall (other than the PN debacle) but I am confident that before too long it will see fewer and fewer contributors. I'm expecting that finding out what actually happened will be as difficult as it was at the beginning of the thread. And in passing we haven't even seen anything on Karl's Facebook page.

by Janhar Mon Sep 30, 2024 5:15 pm

mac wrote:
Janhar wrote:Copy paste from mac
I saw his video lecture as more an attempt to present his own recollections of the events from 10 years ago and much less to do with the current situation involving the 20 tutors, the ones recently mistreated as folk generally appear to see the situation. Scott would be welcome here I feel sure and he could refute anything that's wrong about what happened.

My reply
Mac, you asked a very reasonable question about what was relevant in the video which I gave a reply to. I was not antagonistic to your question at all. I am sorry if you thought that.
thank you I had not thought that for one moment but truly I did not see Scott's message as having any significance to the tutors dispute with the bods in charge at the SNU. It's plainly a sensitive issue for you because one of those tutors is your friend. Please don't misunderstand my position - I am VERY supportive of their position because I suspect they've been dumped on and pushed into taking the action they did. But only when we have official details of the complaints raised by them will I be able to judge. Until then I know only the leaked ones and what others have been saying and for me that's no basis on which I can reach conclusions.

I do hope those tutors get their day to speak out and that if misdeeds are evident I hope those responsible can be made to account for them.

This thread has had more activity than any I can recall (other than the PN debacle) but I am confident that before too long it will see fewer and fewer contributors. I'm expecting that finding out what actually happened will be as difficult as it was at the beginning of the thread. And in passing we haven't even seen anything on Karl's Facebook page.

Who is Karl?

by mac Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:42 pm

voting results - numbered motions as Agenda

1. defeated
1a. defeated
2 passed
3 defeated (3A amendment passed)
4 passed
5 passed
6 defeated
7 passed
8 passed
9 defeated

by mac Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:45 pm

Janhar wrote:
Who is Karl?

Karl Jackson-Barnes

by Admin Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:57 am

mac wrote:
Janhar wrote:This is a link to Scott Milligan’s video and the tutor dispute is mentioned. I think people who have written or read comments about him might want to hear what he says.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/462997674644795/permalink/1597107694567115/?

Isn't this a video primarily about his mediumship? I watched/listened to it a few days back but don't remember anything of significance about the tutors' situation....

Well there was enough to recognise by implication, about the tutors about his stepping in when the tutors let the students down, plus his Die, evil and poison comments probaly not within the College Committees Social Media rules in the terms of the tutors contract but then I guess he was angry. I moved this to an existing thread so it would not become a Scott discussion on this one but I think Janhar was right to draw attention to it.

Now I thought Scott was already a new "Guest" tutor before the others withdrew so thus comment may also be slightly exaggerated. I do accept one grievance was the influx of tutors who had not done the necessary work in the background. As a Guest or Associate Tutor I dare say it would not matter whether or not he was an SNU member either.

However, the Tutor one will now revolve around the arbitration and whether the 20 can ever rebuild a relationship with the two key figures in the AFC Jackie Wright and Paul Jacobs.

I think I will open a thread about changing the 7 Principles, it is hard to modernise without studying the meaning of them. I think it is important to realise that our principles, like theology came from the mind of man not as a direct Spirit gift of tablets on Mount Sinai (which terrible were destroyed and re written by Moses (in his words?)) ( background reading https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2486-spiritualism-ideology-individuality-and-principles ) . So there is no divine reason why they should not be changed, but we must understand they are just as likely to be written by the mind of man as they are t0 be a gift from the Gods (indeed I suspect man's mind may be more prominent even then). My question, who in the current SNU has the capacity to do this? so we do not get a committee based effort.

Have to move this one now as the focus should be what next for the 20 Tutors. If they could, I think they should combine their efforts to run courses which, I am sure would attract large numbers and maybe link up with Martin Colclough on how to turn those into accreditation (so a move to that thread). I understand, after the years of commitment, why they want to work at the AFC and their reasons for feeling their treatment has been unfair but that might have to wait for a change of President and a potential re exile of the Course Convenor. In the meantime stay in the game. I could always post a new thread on upcoming courses from them (in fairness their are some AFC tutors who remain that I would rate, had more decided not to sign that contract, it may have forced a change in attitudes, but I doubt it )

by mac Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:35 am

Earlier in this thread I had written in response to janhar's posting of a link to Scott Milligan's video on Facebook: "I watched/listened to it a few days back but don't remember anything of significance about the tutors' situation...."

I listened again today to what he had to say in his wordy video and I was correct in saying what I did. Yes he had mentioned the situation but primarily in the context of HIS own situation and HIS own somewhat angry view about why there was a clash between certain tutors and a "certain organisation" (or words to that effect)

While listening again this morning - somewhat more carefully in case I had earlier failed to notice something important and significant - I again noticed how Mr Milligan did not name either the organisations he mentioned or those he claimed had been telling lies - despite all his bluster.

I think, though, that it's wrong thing to conflate an account by this medium of his side of events that took place 10 years ago with the current situation in 2024 of the 20 tutors, the primary subject of this thread. It has added nothing of significance to what is already known and has been discussed here at length.

I feel sure, however, that if Mr Milligan wanted to present his views in more detail, and/or to set the record straight about any of the matters discussed in recent weeks here on this website, he would be made very welcome.

by Admin Tue Oct 01, 2024 10:51 am

Mac if Scott replies it should be on the thread directly relate to him.

He deliberately named no one to emphasise the point that those naming people were potentially commiting slander.

Part of that claim is refuted by what we now know about events in 2014.

It is also damaged by his own words die, poison, evil.

Also by the fact that without naming names, his targets, including the 20 tutors are, reading between the lines, obvious.

No more devil's advocates it is actually pretty simple.

His angst to the tutors, some if whom knew the 2014 events, clearly is an issue.

It is important to read between the lines and know how the law may read things.

OK no problem if Scott posts here but remember he says he is dyslexic and will shout (post in capitals) so respect this if he posts ( see the other threads where he has been on here)

by mac Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:28 pm

Admin wrote:

I think I will open a thread about changing the 7 Principles, it is hard to modernise without studying the meaning of them. I think it is important to realise that our principles, like theology came from the mind of man not as a direct Spirit gift of tablets on Mount Sinai (which terrible were destroyed and re written by Moses (in his words?)) ( background reading https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2486-spiritualism-ideology-individuality-and-principles ) . So there is no divine reason why they should not be changed, but we must understand they are just as likely to be written by the mind of man as they are t0 be a gift from the Gods (indeed I suspect man's mind may be more prominent even then). My question, who in the current SNU has the capacity to do this? so we do not get a committee based effort.

It might be interesting to consider the Seven Principles that define Modern Spiritualism to a large degree. Not with any idea to change them though because - to the best of my understanding - they were a vital aspect in the legal recognition of Spiritualism as a registered religion. Please forgive my ignorance if I have that wrong but for me it's what was needed, way back in the 50s of the last century, the last millennium, in order that the movement would be seen out of association with fraudulent mediumship et al.

I'm not keen on some of the Principles but I accept they have to stay although I do think the wording could be brought up to date. Whether any of the SNU's exec. members has any more insight into what's needed than anyone else interested in this matter is moot. I'm sure I could make a good fist of re-writing them though. Wink

by mac Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:55 pm

Admin wrote:Mac if Scott replies it should be on the thread directly relate to him.

Naturally that would be the ideal but I wouldn't mind if he had thoughts to offer in any thread about any subject. Wink

He deliberately named no one to emphasise the point that those naming people were potentially commiting slander.

You're meaning those who mentioned names when they could not support their allegations? I'd say - as a layperson - that the risk of anyone being taken to law concerning allegations made in the esoteric field of spirit communications is slim but I take your point. Slander is slander if accusations can't be supported and defended.

Part of that claim is refuted by what we now know about events in 2014.

It is also damaged by his own words die, poison, evil.

Maybe he would have something else to add to what's known?

Also by the fact that without naming names, his targets, including the 20 tutors are, reading between the lines, obvious.

Is inference seen in law as committing slander?

No more devil's advocates it is actually pretty simple.

His angst to the tutors, some if whom knew the 2014 events, clearly is an issue.

It is important to read between the lines and know how the law may read things.

You may well be right and I don't have any knowledge about or experience of the law.

OK no problem if Scott posts here but remember he says he is dyslexic and will shout (post in capitals) so respect this if he posts ( see the other threads where he has been on here)

I will certainly make due allowance for what you've mentioned and I do hope someone will invite him to present his own side of the picture. So much simpler in text, I find - ideally seriatim.

by notabigjump Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:26 pm

Back to the tutor dispute:

It's been a long year for 20 tutors. The SNU has been in no rush to resolve the matter and now with the election and the AGM out the way, I hope there are no more delays.

I believe the mediation company are now investigating and sources report some have given their accounts to them, with more to do the same.

My hope is for a fair and just outcome and that the SNU will follow any recommendations. It must be costing the charity a lot of money to bring in these experts and if they ignore their findings, then they really would be dragging the SNU further into the gutter. Hopefully the tutors will know the outcome soon.

On a brighter note, the SNU has shot itself in the foot by dragging it out. Unsure of the outcomes, the tutors are doing well at setting up their own courses, on their own terms. Funnily enough, the area near the AFC and Stansted airport is rich in period mansion houses that have become spiritual development retreat centres.

The added advantage is they provide airport transfers and ensuite rooms. It's a battle to to get the en-suite rooms at the AFC, due to how limited they are and having to share bathroom and toilet facilities puts a lot of people off booking. for over two decades the college has procrastinated on this issue. Even the tutors have to share toilet and washing facilities, I am informed.

So I say good luck to the 20 tutors, by ensuring they don't sit around and wait for the SNU to make move. At least we know their loyal students know where to book now.

by notabigjump Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:30 pm

notabigjump wrote:Back to the tutor dispute:

It's been a long year for 20 tutors. The SNU has been in no rush to resolve the matter and now with the election and the AGM out the way, I hope there are no more delays.

I believe the mediation company are now investigating and sources report some have given their accounts to them, with more to do the same.

My hope is for a fair and just outcome and that the SNU will follow any recommendations. It must be costing the charity a lot of money to bring in these experts and if they ignore their findings, then they really would be dragging the SNU further into the gutter. Hopefully the tutors will know the outcome soon.

On a brighter note, the SNU has shot itself in the foot by dragging it out. Unsure of the outcomes, the tutors are doing well at setting up their own courses, on their own terms. Funnily enough, the area near the AFC and Stansted airport is rich in period mansion houses that have become spiritual development retreat centres.

The added advantage is they provide airport transfers and ensuite rooms. It's a battle to to get the en-suite rooms at the AFC, due to how limited they are and having to share bathroom and toilet facilities puts a lot of people off booking. for over two decades the college has procrastinated on this issue. Even the tutors have to share toilet and washing facilities, I am informed.

So I say good luck to the 20 tutors, by ensuring they don't sit around and wait for the SNU to make a move. At least we know their loyal students know where to book now.

by mac Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:40 pm

notabigjump wrote:Back to the tutor dispute:

quite

It's been a long year for 20 tutors. The SNU has been in no rush to resolve the matter and now with the election and the AGM out the way, I hope there are no more delays.

I believe the mediation company are now investigating and sources report some have given their accounts to them, with more to do the same.

So it's officially in mediation, presumably with binding outcomes on both parties?

My hope is for a fair and just outcome and that the SNU will follow any recommendations. It must be costing the charity a lot of money to bring in these experts and if they ignore their findings, then they really would be dragging the SNU further into the gutter. Hopefully the tutors will know the outcome soon.

On a brighter note, the SNU has shot itself in the foot by dragging it out. Unsure of the outcomes, the tutors are doing well at setting up their own courses, on their own terms. Funnily enough, the area near the AFC and Stansted airport is rich in period mansion houses that have become spiritual development retreat centres.

The added advantage is they provide airport transfers and ensuite rooms. It's a battle to to get the en-suite rooms at the AFC, due to how limited they are and having to share bathroom and toilet facilities puts a lot of people off booking. for over two decades the college has procrastinated on this issue. Even the tutors have to share toilet and washing facilities, I am informed.

Doesn't even the blackest cloud sometimes have a silver lining? There was an interchange at the AGM about proposals for the modernisation of the shared bedrooms and facilities. I got the impression they will go ahead asap. But it's great to hear there are good alternatives to AFC. (later edit: It might not be great for the college if/when other colleges start getting used in preference to AFC!)

So I say good luck to the 20 tutors, by ensuring they don't sit around and wait for the SNU to make move. At least we know their loyal students know where to book now.

Agreed!

by notabigjump Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:43 pm

mac wrote:
notabigjump wrote:Back to the tutor dispute:
quite

It's been a long year for 20 tutors. The SNU has been in no rush to resolve the matter and now with the election and the AGM out the way, I hope there are no more delays.

I believe the mediation company are now investigating and sources report some have given their accounts to them, with more to do the same.
So it's officially in mediation, presumably with binding outcomes on both parties?

To be honest I have no idea if its binding or just recommendations. The latter being the fear that any would be ignored by the SNU.

by mac Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:36 pm

notabigjump wrote:

I believe the mediation company are now investigating and sources report some have given their accounts to them, with more to do the same.

So it's officially in mediation, presumably with binding outcomes on both parties?

To be honest I have no idea if its binding or just recommendations. The latter being the fear that any would be ignored by the SNU.

It would certainly make a nonsense of mediation were one of the parties not to take part or not accept the findings - but so what if that were the outcome? I suppose it might make a difference to the tutors' case if they were to proceeded to press for compensation if the SNU had rejected the mediation. That's assuming the tutors' case is strong. But at this stage this is mediation and not arbitration.

by Admin Wed Oct 02, 2024 12:54 am

Thanks for the updates notabigjump.

I have started a thread allowing the 20 tutors to put their events on the forum. The SNU have a good promotion system for AFC courses.

We should have a new logo for them.

by notabigjump Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:07 pm

I’m sure certain members of the SNU would prefer the tutor dispute to lose momentum and public support. As much as I can I will do my best along with others, to prevent this and keep it current. 20 good, honest and talented individuals have had their lives turned upside down by it and deserve support.

The first issue today is that yet again, I am reminded that the president is not the union, nor is she the owner of the AFC. Yet another member reminded me today of how openly she stated she will never let the tutors back to the college!

I wonder how anyone can decide that alone, or even on behalf of an entire charitable union, and still get away with it. Does she really believe it is all up to her? Does nobody question the level of power she weirdly believes she has? Why does nobody stand up to her and say “hey, it’s not all about what YOU want.”

She doesn’t own the union and she doesn’t own the college. She is elected to represent the SNU as the president and to uphold decisions that are democratically decided by committees.

The other issue today which bugs me are new reports of people being intimidated by Paul Jacobs online.
As tutors start bringing out their own residential courses, it seems PJ is at it again bullying people for supporting the very thing that JW, PJ and Co. created.

The tutors having being held in suspense about their complaints for months, have had no choice but to arrange their own independent work and book suitable venues for their courses.

However, it appears Mr Jacobs doesn’t like people sharing the tutors other events on social media and has taken to privately messaging those who share them.

He is well known for teaching with intimidation and continues this behaviour outside of the classroom, making it personal via social media messaging.

If you’re going to remove all courses from 20 tutors, do you think they will sit around and not do anything?

The latest course is on a par with AFC pricing. A single room en-suite will cost you over £1000 for a week at the AFC.

This other course is £925 for a week and everyone gets an en-suite regardless of what they pay. It’s 5 night 6 days as opposed to AFC 6 days 7 nights so it’s really around the same mark. Plus you get a gym, a games room and airport transfers! I heard a whisper there were some nice tasty touches at coffee break too!

To bully people for supporting these removed tutors really beggars belief. You can’t have your cake and eat it PJ.

When will the NEC wake up and smell the coffee?

Time to read the room madam president!

by Slatewriter Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:13 pm

notabigjump wrote:
The other issue today which bugs me are new reports of people being intimidated by Paul Jacobs online.
As tutors start bringing out their own residential courses, it seems PJ is at it again bullying people for supporting the very thing that JW, PJ and Co. created.

The tutors having being held in suspense about their complaints for months, have had no choice but to arrange their own independent work and book suitable venues for their courses.

However, it appears Mr Jacobs doesn’t like people sharing the tutors other events on social media and has taken to privately messaging those who share them.

Isn't it time someone was brave enough, or annoyed enough, to publically share some of those messages or comments from Mr Jacobs?

by unseenfriends Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:43 pm

notabigjump wrote:I’m sure certain members of the SNU would prefer the tutor dispute to lose momentum and public support. As much as I can I will do my best along with others, to prevent this and keep it current. 20 good, honest and talented individuals have had their lives turned upside down by it and deserve support.

The first issue today is that yet again, I am reminded that the president is not the union, nor is she the owner of the AFC. Yet another member reminded me today of how openly she stated she will never let the tutors back to the college!

I wonder how anyone can decide that alone, or even on behalf of an entire charitable union, and still get away with it. Does she really believe it is all up to her? Does nobody question the level of power she weirdly believes she has? Why does nobody stand up to her and say “hey, it’s not all about what YOU want.”

She doesn’t own the union and she doesn’t own the college. She is elected to represent the SNU as the president and to uphold decisions that are democratically decided by committees.

The other issue today which bugs me are new reports of people being intimidated by Paul Jacobs online.
As tutors start bringing out their own residential courses, it seems PJ is at it again bullying people for supporting the very thing that JW, PJ and Co. created.

The tutors having being held in suspense about their complaints for months, have had no choice but to arrange their own independent work and book suitable venues for their courses.

However, it appears Mr Jacobs doesn’t like people sharing the tutors other events on social media and has taken to privately messaging those who share them.

He is well known for teaching with intimidation and continues this behaviour outside of the classroom, making it personal via social media messaging.

If you’re going to remove all courses from 20 tutors, do you think they will sit around and not do anything?

The latest course is on a par with AFC pricing. A single room en-suite will cost you over £1000 for a week at the AFC.

This other course is £925 for a week and everyone gets an en-suite regardless of what they pay. It’s 5 night 6 days as opposed to AFC 6 days 7 nights so it’s really around the same mark. Plus you get a gym, a games room and airport transfers! I heard a whisper there were some nice tasty touches at coffee break too!

To bully people for supporting these removed tutors really beggars belief. You can’t have your cake and eat it PJ.

When will the NEC wake up and smell the coffee?

Time to read the room madam president!

Totally agree with every word of your post Notabgjump. It is no surprise that the exiled tutors will find other ways to offer their students what they want, and surely those in power should have expected it. Bullying those students supporting the tutors running independent courses is beyond the pale, and a sad indictment of PJ and those in power supporting and enabling his behaviour.

Perhaps the AFC losing money may wake up the NEC/AFC committee (but I won’t hold my breath).

by notabigjump Wed Oct 02, 2024 10:09 pm

Slatewriter wrote:
notabigjump wrote:
The other issue today which bugs me are new reports of people being intimidated by Paul Jacobs online.
As tutors start bringing out their own residential courses, it seems PJ is at it again bullying people for supporting the very thing that JW, PJ and Co. created.

The tutors having being held in suspense about their complaints for months, have had no choice but to arrange their own independent work and book suitable venues for their courses.

However, it appears Mr Jacobs doesn’t like people sharing the tutors other events on social media and has taken to privately messaging those who share them.

Isn't it time someone was brave enough, or annoyed enough, to publically share some of those messages or comments from Mr Jacobs?

I agree. They have in the past over the video he didn't like, but that's the nature of intimidation - not everyone is brave enough to speak up.

by Lis Wed Oct 02, 2024 10:52 pm

It seems to me, subject to the actual wording of PJs messages to SNU members regarding their sharing of information about the (former?) tutor's proposed new courses at other venues, that whether or not they are made public,

* that such correspondence has been received from that AFC/SNU representative
* that the correspondence was unsolicited and unwanted
* that the correspondence conveys any impression of intimidation, threat, or potential loss of rights or benefits, or
* that suggests, indicates or implies that sharing of information may result in some disapproval or disadvantage to the SNU member/AFC attendee, or
* that suggests, requests or demands, or places pressure of any kind on the recipient of the said correspondence, to cease sharing information or withdraw shared information form any online platform, or
* that expresses disapproval and disappointment in the recipient of the correspondence for their action in sharing information

Is a matter that could be forwarded to the affected tutors for the attention of their legal representative.

It is important to point out, however, that the correspondence received from the said PJ, it may be argued, is private correspondence. As such forwarding the emails to others would not, in the first instance be appropriate.

However, an email to the appropriate recipients expressing the general content of the correspondence received from PJ, along with the recipients concerns in

a) having received such correspondence and
b) having felt adversely impacted on by the said correspondence

is an appropriate action to take.

The recipient of PJs communications may also advise PJ that they have concerns about his correspondence, and consider the matter serious enough to refer to it to others that may be affected by it.

PJ is a member of the SNU. His actions, both public, and private, that directly adversely impact on any SNU member or other individual that uses the services of the SNU/AFC, or may adversely impact on any other individual or group of individuals to their personal or financial disadvantage, may be a matter that could be brought as a complaint for the attention of the Independent Complaints Committee of the SNU.

Certainly, attempting to prevent any individual from sharing or promoting the upcoming courses or workshops of any individual or group of individuals would appear to be an an attempt to directly and deliberately adversely impact on the rights of such individuals, or groups of individuals, to work and obtain income from such work. That may represent "restraint of trade" - a serious matter, indeed.

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