Re: Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

by mac Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:04 am

Admin wrote:This approach has just seen the web developer of the SNU site being dismissed so a new and better site can be developed.

That's very interesting! The president mentioned him during the AGM and how we would be developing a new website after the NEC's procrastination about what was wanted. But now HE'S gone you say - breathtakingly swift changes continue!!

by Admin Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:21 am

[quote="notabigjump"]

Janhar wrote:
Jbodoski wrote:

That is very true. They worked at the AFC because they love the AFC but they don’t need it. We might get some of them back with a change of President but if it was me I would be kissing the SNU farewell.

They don't need it at all. The work of the spirit can be anywhere and that anywhere usually has better facilities if residential. However, there are many special memories there too and the fight for justice and reinstatement of courses could be a natural draw. I'd love to see them back and with a renewed vision of spiritualist development, to the current one. We've seen what the old guard had led to and there will be a great opportunity once they win their case. Yes I do believe they will.

Sadly I think we must forget a win for the tutors. The only way they get back is JW and PJ go. No arbitrator or mediator can deal with a relationship break down like this between employer and contractor just compensation. It is sad

by unseenfriends Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:47 am

I have just seen on FB that AFC Tutor Matthew Smith has announced that he is withdrawing his services from the AFC with immediate effect. Here are the words from his post

Announcement
This morning I informed the AFC that I am withdrawing my teaching services with immediate effect.
See you all online!

He does not go into his reasons but I know he is close friends with many of the AFC20. He also recently promoted the course by several of the AFC20 on his Facebook page so remains supportive of them. Not sure if that is part of it. Sad that the AFC has lost another experienced tutor.

by Janhar Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:54 am

Admin wrote:
notabigjump wrote:
Janhar wrote:

That is very true. They worked at the AFC because they love the AFC but they don’t need it. We might get some of them back with a change of President but if it was me I would be kissing the SNU farewell.

They don't need it at all. The work of the spirit can be anywhere and that anywhere usually has better facilities if residential. However, there are many special memories there too and the fight for justice and reinstatement of courses could be a natural draw. I'd love to see them back and with a renewed vision of spiritualist development, to the current one. We've seen what the old guard had led to and there will be a great opportunity once they win their case. Yes I do believe they will.
Sadly I think we must forget a win for the tutors. The only way they get back is JW and PJ go. No arbitrator or mediator can deal with a relationship break down like this between employer and contractor just compensation. It is sad

I don’t feel optimism and I really don’t want the tutors to go back into the shackles which have always been part of the SNU. Some rules are by necessity….I understand that, but I want the AFC20 to fly free if that is their wish.
The AFC would not be what it is without firstly the charisma and ability of Gordon Higginson followed by the students in whom he saw mediumistic talent plus an aura that would draw people to them, and who received mentorship from him.
Without Simon (yes, I specify him) who has commitments elsewhere, and Eileen (who seems to be currently taking a back seat) I don’t as yet see anyone with the correct combination of mediumistic ability plus charisma, and who is in favour, who could lead the SNU in a Spiritual but firm way and remain loved.
However, there could be someone I don’t know because I am no longer an attendee at the College so very out of touch. I care nothing about the current SNU. I love the AFC but no longer attend. However, the SNU churches do need an SNU. For that reason alone, I want the AFC to continue, in order to fund those churches.
Perhaps somebody NOT currently in favour might be the future President.

by Janhar Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:03 pm

unseenfriends wrote:I have just seen on FB that AFC Tutor Matthew Smith has announced that he is withdrawing his services from the AFC with immediate effect. Here are the words from his post

Announcement
This morning I informed the AFC that I am withdrawing my teaching services with immediate effect.
See you all online!

He does not go into his reasons but I know he is close friends with many of the AFC20. He also recently promoted the course by several of the AFC20 on his Facebook page so remains supportive of them. Not sure if that is part of it. Sad that the AFC has lost another experienced tutor.

I am pleased Matthew is supporting them. Met him 2 or 3 times in my later years as a student there and would have liked to do more with him.

by mac Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:05 pm

Admin wrote:
notabigjump wrote:
Janhar wrote:
Jbodoski wrote:

That is very true. They worked at the AFC because they love the AFC but they don’t need it. We might get some of them back with a change of President but if it was me I would be kissing the SNU farewell.

They don't need it at all. The work of the spirit can be anywhere and that anywhere usually has better facilities if residential. However, there are many special memories there too and the fight for justice and reinstatement of courses could be a natural draw. I'd love to see them back and with a renewed vision of spiritualist development, to the current one. We've seen what the old guard had led to and there will be a great opportunity once they win their case. Yes I do believe they will.
Sadly I think we must forget a win for the tutors. The only way they get back is JW and PJ go. No arbitrator or mediator can deal with a relationship break down like this between employer and contractor just compensation. It is sad

It definitely is sad and sadly it was pretty-much predictable once the story began unfolding. The winners will be the bods in charge and there seems not a snowball-in-Hell's chance of ridding the Union of them. Mediation needs both parties' willingness to reach an amicable - or at least workable - arrangement. I suggest there's not a hope of that.

It's not a matter of arbitration because again in my view the bods in charge are unlikely ever to be bound by a third party's decision. Compensation may be the best that can be achieved at a financial cost to the Union and/or the Findlay 20. What a desperately unhappy outcome. Crying or Very sad

by Janhar Sat Oct 05, 2024 2:41 pm

[quote="mac"]

Admin wrote:
notabigjump wrote:
Janhar wrote:

That is very true. They worked at the AFC because they love the AFC but they don’t need it. We might get some of them back with a change of President but if it was me I would be kissing the SNU farewell.

They don't need it at all. The work of the spirit can be anywhere and that anywhere usually has better facilities if residential. However, there are many special memories there too and the fight for justice and reinstatement of courses could be a natural draw. I'd love to see them back and with a renewed vision of spiritualist development, to the current one. We've seen what the old guard had led to and there will be a great opportunity once they win their case. Yes I do believe they will.
Sadly I think we must forget a win for the tutors. The only way they get back is JW and PJ go. No arbitrator or mediator can deal with a relationship break down like this between employer and contractor just compensation. It is sad

mac wrote:It definitely is sad and sadly it was pretty-much predictable once the story began unfolding. The winners will be the bods in charge and there seems not a snowball-in-Hell's chance of ridding the Union of them. Mediation needs both parties' willingness to reach an amicable - or at least workable - arrangement. I suggest there's not a hope of that.

It's not a matter of arbitration because again in my view the bods in charge are unlikely ever to be bound by a third party's decision. Compensation may be the best that can be achieved at a financial cost to the Union and/or the Findlay 20. What a desperately unhappy outcome.

From Janhar
A loss for the tutors would actually be a financial gain for some of them. I think a lot of people don't realise that they can earn more in a week solo than they do in a week at the AFC. They do not need their jobs at the AFC but they will miss it enormously.

by mac Sat Oct 05, 2024 3:48 pm

Janhar wrote:

From Janhar
A loss for the tutors would actually be a financial gain for some of them. I think a lot of people don't realise that they can earn more in a week solo than they do in a week at the AFC. They do not need their jobs at the AFC but they will miss it enormously.

interesting point! It's good to know their won't be a negative impact on the Findlay 20's income so maybe it won't be worth the continued stress and uncertainty in taking legal action to try to get compensation. Perhaps less hassle just to walk away from it all and continue to serve the spirit in different locations.

Maybe the SNU with its associated AFC business will now strike out in its own direction and with a different crew. We should wish them "bon voyage". Wink

by Anniemillo1 Sat Oct 05, 2024 4:05 pm

Hi, I don't believe the Tutors will walk away they have stayed strong all this time. Yes I believe it is hassle that they don't need but their integrity has highlighted to the SNU members what kind of people are now running THEIR SPIRITUAL organisation. How embarrassing between the illegal electronic voting, hoping that members wouldn't notice, a high court writ issued, the VP being subjected to questioning by the President's son. If you remember the same thing happened to the treasurer when JW first became P. Strangely enough, the son (which I am now led to believe is nicknamed the Minder) knew exactly what questions to ask and then the Treasurer resigned. It's becoming a familiar pattern guys, if you are not a yes man, YOU ARE OUT. Bit like the Emperor's new clothes. Only problem here is that it is the member's organisation and the SNU could get seriously harmed because she won't listen.

by mac Sat Oct 05, 2024 6:02 pm

Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi, I don't believe the Tutors will walk away they have stayed strong all this time. Yes I believe it is hassle that they don't need but their integrity has highlighted to the SNU members what kind of people are now running THEIR SPIRITUAL organisation. How embarrassing between the illegal electronic voting, hoping that members wouldn't notice, a high court writ issued, the VP being subjected to questioning by the President's son. If you remember the same thing happened to the treasurer when JW first became P. Strangely enough, the son (which I am now led to believe is nicknamed the Minder) knew exactly what questions to ask and then the Treasurer resigned. It's becoming a familiar pattern guys, if you are not a yes man, YOU ARE OUT. Bit like the Emperor's new clothes. Only problem here is that it is the member's organisation and the SNU could get seriously harmed because she won't listen.

I don't intend to be provocative by saying this but so what? Does our president's approach, or that of her son, suggest they're individuals who DO care about anyone other than themselves? I'd say not....

Some postings ago website owner, Jim, explained to me that both the SNU and the AFC are businesses and the manager/CEO is now running both as businesses. How successful they will be remains to be seen. I remain unsure about her ultimate intentions for those businesses but their spiritual welfare does not appear to be high on her list of priorities.

by notabigjump Sat Oct 05, 2024 7:21 pm

mac wrote:

Some postings ago website owner, Jim, explained to me that both the SNU and the AFC are businesses and the manager/CEO is now running both as businesses. How successful they will be remains to be seen. I remain unsure about her ultimate intentions for those businesses but their spiritual welfare does not appear to be high on her list of priorities.

It's a fair point Mac and something that springs to my memory is that the President has constantly stated (emphatically) The Churches are her first priority! I must have heard and read her stating this dozens of times and it was reiterated at the AGM. That is all well and good and excellent that the churches are treated so well.

However, as the SNU and AFC are two totally different businesses, (as Jim has previously stated), it would make much more sense to manage one efficiently and bring in a very good team for the other. The reality is she tries to manage both simultaneously and as its a multi million pound charity, it seems to me to be foolish to take on the AFC too, when her priority is clearly the churches. There is a double standard here in her own words.

It's obviously not working out well with 21 tutors withdrawing their teaching. So splitting the management with people with experienced business acumen, seems a sensible solution to me.

by mac Sat Oct 05, 2024 7:58 pm

I expect that were the returned president to ask SNU members their views on the best way forward then experienced and knowledgeable individuals like you would make sensible suggestions for the future of both the Union and the college. And were she that sort of individual she might have already consulted with members thus avoiding any need for this lengthy conversation thread. But she ain't and she didn't!

As you've pointed out here, this head honcho has looked after the churches well, something I too had noted including what she'd said in AGM. As you've remarked, that's good for the churches and consequently they will likely support what she now does.

As for her business acumen - or lack of it - time will show. Maybe things will work out for her and maybe they won't but it appears there's NOTHING anyone can do to influence her approach over both businesses, however different either one may be one from the other.

Other businesses have gone down the pan because of foolish behaviour - remember Gerald Ratner? - and conceivably she could crash the SNU and the AFC. There may be nothing to be done except to sit, wait and watch events unfold over the winter.

by Janhar Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:15 pm

mac wrote:
Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi, I don't believe the Tutors will walk away they have stayed strong all this time. Yes I believe it is hassle that they don't need but their integrity has highlighted to the SNU members what kind of people are now running THEIR SPIRITUAL organisation. How embarrassing between the illegal electronic voting, hoping that members wouldn't notice, a high court writ issued, the VP being subjected to questioning by the President's son. If you remember the same thing happened to the treasurer when JW first became P. Strangely enough, the son (which I am now led to believe is nicknamed the Minder) knew exactly what questions to ask and then the Treasurer resigned. It's becoming a familiar pattern guys, if you are not a yes man, YOU ARE OUT. Bit like the Emperor's new clothes. Only problem here is that it is the member's organisation and the SNU could get seriously harmed because she won't listen.

I don't intend to be provocative by saying this but so what? Does our president's approach, or that of her son, suggest they're individuals who DO care about anyone other than themselves? I'd say not....

Some postings ago website owner, Jim, explained to me that both the SNU and the AFC are businesses and the manager/CEO is now running both as businesses. How successful they will be remains to be seen. I remain unsure about her ultimate intentions for those businesses but their spiritual welfare does not appear to be high on her list of priorities.

I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.
Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20 we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.
How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be. The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other. They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.
Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.
The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.

by mac Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:43 pm

Janhar wrote:

Some postings ago website owner, Jim, explained to me that both the SNU and the AFC are businesses and the manager/CEO is now running both as businesses. How successful they will be remains to be seen. I remain unsure about her ultimate intentions for those businesses but their spiritual welfare does not appear to be high on her list of priorities.[/color]

I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.

I understand why you're lashing out in frustration but how are they "allowing this to happen"? As opposed to doing what to prevent it? Maybe when details are publicly made known everyone interested will be able to understand the full position, something not possible at present. But neither you nor I have any right to tell others how they should react or behave.

Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20

I don't! I have sympathy for their situation but I can not endorse their actions without knowing the full story.

....we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.

That's your assumption and not necessarily fact.

How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be.

what? everyone? Rolling Eyes

The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other.

Lots of people irritate me! Mediums are also people so why would they necessarily feel different - are there special rules for them?

They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.

?

Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.

Tarring them all with the same brush! Rolling Eyes

The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.

SHIDAD I'm very disappointed. Crying or Very sad

[/quote]

by Janhar Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:54 pm

mac wrote:

Some postings ago website owner, Jim, explained to me that both the SNU and the AFC are businesses and the manager/CEO is now running both as businesses. How successful they will be remains to be seen. I remain unsure about her ultimate intentions for those businesses but their spiritual welfare does not appear to be high on her list of priorities.[/color]
Janhar:
I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.
I understand why you're lashing out in frustration but how are they "allowing this to happen"? As opposed to doing what to prevent it? Maybe when details are publicly made known everyone interested will be able to understand the full position, something not possible at present. But neither you nor I have any right to tell others how they should react or behave.

Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20
I don't! I have sympathy for their situation but I can not endorse their actions without knowing the full story.....we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.

How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be.
what? everyone?

The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other.
Lots of people irritate me! Mediums are also people so why would they necessarily feel different - are there special rules for them?

They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.
Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.

Tarring them all with the same brush!

The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.

SHIDAD I'm very disappointed.

Mac, my whole point here is that mediums are normal people and they mess up and are not always kind just like everybody else.
I am certainly not lashing out in frustration. I have lived happily with this realisation for years. It actually freed me in some ways to accept my own “not niceness” and sheer normality, whilst knowing that it does not make me less spiritual or less “nice” than anybody else.

by notabigjump Sat Oct 05, 2024 9:57 pm

[quote="Janhar"] I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.
Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20 we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.
How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be. The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other. They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.
Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.
The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.

[/quote]

I don't understand a lot of this reasoning. There are so many generalisations and I can't fathom what the real message is. Too many assumptions for my wee brain to compute. I mean, how rich do you think the 20 are? None of them live in mansions or drive top of the range cars, I can assure you. Why is being sacked more honourable than resigning? What evidence is there that the remaining AFC tutors think they should have accepted their lot? - we don't know their circumstances or reasons for continuing to work at the college. How do you know what the college is calling them? Why would you say they will be happy to see them lose? You've lost me on this on Janhar.[/quote]

by Janhar Sat Oct 05, 2024 10:09 pm

Janhar wrote
I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.
Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20 we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.
How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be. The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other. They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.
Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.
The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.

Notabigjump wrote
don't understand a lot of this reasoning. There are so many generalisations and I can't fathom what the real ffmessage is. Too many assumptions for my wee brain to compute. I mean, how rich do you think the 20 are? None of them live in mansions or drive top of the range cars, I can assure you. Why is being sacked more honourable than resigning? What evidence is there that the remaining AFC tutors think they should have accepted their lot? - we don't know their circumstances or reasons for continuing to work at the college. How do you know what the college is calling them? Why would you say they will be happy to see them lose? You've lost me on this on Janhar.

[/quote]

Janhar wrote
Read it again then, I cannot say it any other way. I have nothing to add or subtract.

by Lis Sat Oct 05, 2024 10:40 pm

Just a bit of "house-keeping" advice here folks.

Please when you wish to quote someone in order to respond to what they have said, press the quote button, and then write below the segment you have quoted.

If you only want to respond to one part of what has been said delete all but that section from in the quote.

Then make sure you write below the section you have quoted. Otherwise it become very unclear to others what was said by whom, and in some cases it appears that what was said was by the person who is in fact responding to what someone else has written.

A second housekeeping rule here folks is that personal attacks on what one person has said, when you disagree with their perspective or opinion, is unacceptable. We may not agree with what others have said, and to say "I see it differently" is one thing, but to list each point you disagree with and denigrate the writer is not appropriate.

Please keep the discussion respectful.

by Admin Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:07 am

Janhar wrote
I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.
Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20 we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.
How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be. The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other. They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.
Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.
The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.

A lot of assumptions Janhar it seems something of a switch has been flicked on this. I cannot disagree with some points but I do not believe that, because some people have not spoken out then they are in agreement with the Hierarchy.

Indeed the hierarchy have made it clear if you speak out they will try to block or obfuscate the message. We have no idea why the balance signed that contract, or why they stayed on. The church hierarchy is, as far as I can see it now, The elected President and her chosen Vice Presidents (neither elected) and her chosen NEC, who in turn are filling all the committees with chosen people. My guess is that the DC's will be brought under control, or more easily, a Bye Law passed to withdraw any powers they have to do anything, so they exist but in a vacuum, any role in education has already been removed this year.

Beyond that people are people jealousies, irritating habits yup, that and humans being all to often power seeking or political meet life.

by Admin Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:07 am

Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi, I don't believe the Tutors will walk away they have stayed strong all this time. Yes I believe it is hassle that they don't need but their integrity has highlighted to the SNU members what kind of people are now running THEIR SPIRITUAL organisation. How embarrassing between the illegal electronic voting, hoping that members wouldn't notice, a high court writ issued, the VP being subjected to questioning by the President's son. If you remember the same thing happened to the treasurer when JW first became P. Strangely enough, the son (which I am now led to believe is nicknamed the Minder) knew exactly what questions to ask and then the Treasurer resigned. It's becoming a familiar pattern guys, if you are not a yes man, YOU ARE OUT. Bit like the Emperor's new clothes. Only problem here is that it is the member's organisation and the SNU could get seriously harmed because she won't listen.

I think you touched many interesting points here Anniemillo1.I do not think the tutors want to walk away I think they are being pushed away and not in a very nice way. Here be Pirates ( I have been waiting to use this one) Pirate Crew

by Janhar Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:41 am

Admin wrote:
Janhar wrote
I would add to this by saying that the entire SNU hierarchy and remaining tutor population is now allowing this to happen. They have not expressed support for the 20 tutors so we must assume they have none. They should speak out if they support them, no need to resign if they wish to stay. If they get sacked they will be able to go head held high This will ultimately get them more respect.
Although all people on this thread fully endorse the AFC20 we have to accept that many of the remaining AFC tutors do not and will probably think they should have just accepted things as they are in order to preserve the AFC and will be calling them egoists, selfish, etc etc.
How do I know this? I know it because I know how sanctimonious “Spiritual” people can be. The truth is that many mediums at the college irritate each other. They always have. They don’t show it to the students but the students don’t miss much, they are mostly mediums in the making lol.
Those tutors who are irritated by some of those within the AFC20 (for reasons of rivalry or resentment about how rich they got, for instance) will not be supporting them and will be pleased to see them lose. Mediums are not always nice even if they are Spiritual. Yes I did say that. You can be “not nice” and also Spiritual. However, mediums tend to think that they are Spiritual therefore they are nice, and that often means they think they get things right.
The whole thing is quite ridiculous and is why I now distance myself from it. I prefer to love them from a distance…and I sincerely do love the whole lot, even the ones I don’t !!, but the word “spiritual” though used a lot by me in this post, is a word I am heartily sick of.
A lot of assumptions Janhar it seems something of a switch has been flicked on this. I cannot disagree with some points but I do not believe that, because some people have not spoken out then they are in agreement with the Hierarchy.

Indeed the hierarchy have made it clear if you speak out they will try to block or obfuscate the message. We have no idea why the balance signed that contract, or why they stayed on. The church hierarchy is, as far as I can see it now, The elected President and her chosen Vice Presidents (neither elected) and her chosen NEC, who in turn are filling all the committees with chosen people. My guess is that the DC's will be brought under control, or more easily, a Bye Law passed to withdraw any powers they have to do anything, so they exist but in a vacuum, any role in education has already been removed this year.

Beyond that people are people jealousies, irritating habits yup, that and humans being all to often power seeking or political meet life.

I know people are afraid to speak out, but unfortunately, when you don’t, it can be construed as agreement and in the absence of anything from your lips in support it is, by default, a lack of support. This is not fair of course because you then have to risk your own neck for someone else’s cause. If you cannot bear the fallout you have to keep quiet for your own sake. In this way, dominant people remain dominant. This is what I mean when I say that they are all allowing this to happen. They are afraid to speak their truth.

Also, on reflection I can change one word that I wrote. I can change the word “resentment” (about how rich they got) to “disapproval” (about how rich they got) and that would be a more accurate statement. I do not think they are all rich, not at all, I am thinking of one in particular who probably earns more with theatre work he does and the numbers of people who clamour to get readings or be mentored by him. He does attract criticism from many SNU members and many tutors who disparage what they often call “celebrity mediumship”.

One medium in particular, on FB and J W herself, in a statement, at the beginning of all this, said that they do not do their work at the AFC for money. They were implying, I felt, that the AFC20 are doing it for the money. As I have previously said on here this is not true of them because their solo work pays more. I have been told this by another tutor many years ago. They mentioned it in group once when they were saying how much they love to work at the college. That person said a week filled with readings would pay more but they would rather be teaching at the College.

I would also like to point out, as claimed in another post from a different member, that I never said it was more noble to be sacked than to resign. That was a distortion of what I said and something we should all be careful not to do. There were other distortions of my actual words in another members post. Misunderstanding or disagreement is one thing but pouncing before fully reading is not ok. I prefer the way Admin has approached this and therefore I am responding directly to him. I also thank Lis for her diplomatic yet firm input.

Getting back to celebrity mediumship, just in case I am misquoted or misunderstood, let me be clear. I personally think it is great. If you have that gift to get most of your evidence correct and you have charisma, then go for it. Show the public what a genuine medium can do. If it brings in good money you deserve every penny for taking the risk of such wide censor if it does not go well. If a good medium gets up there on the stage at the London Palladium, or any town theatre, I say good on them and hats off to their courage and faith in their Spirit team.
If you are not that great as a medium then do nothing of the kind, I implore you.
Perhaps that could be another topic?

by mac Sun Oct 06, 2024 9:08 am

I don't make personal attacks. I do, though, believe it acceptable to challenge points and to give considered explanations why. I don't see that as denigration and find it totally acceptable for others to do similar when they disagree with me.

I see it differently but this is not my website so I'll stand down.

by Janhar Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:40 pm

I have sent a private message to Mac asking him not to stand down as I will miss him and others will. I hope he comes back to the thread.

Addition. It is still in my outbox which suggests he doesn’t accept private messages.
I see the irony of a private message being revealed in the thread. I only tried to use the message box in case mac doesn’t look at the thread again.

If you do see this mac I hope you will rejoin us in this discussion.

by Anniemillo1 Sun Oct 06, 2024 2:16 pm

Hi, Latest one to hit the dust and seems like the usual way pretending that people are resigning when in fact they have already been fired. Who will be left standing. Let's count the favourable bodies at the moment. If they keep going through the bodies like this will there be any members left by the end of this presidency to reign over, or will they be all fired. Apparently the Almoner made a mistake and sent a message that contained copies of email addresses.

Within five mins. the President told her to resign as Almoner with immediate effect. As far as I am led to believe, the NEC had already replaced the Almoner so asking for her resignation was bit of a fake . Another underhanded way of ruling?

by Janhar Sun Oct 06, 2024 2:31 pm

Anniemillo1 wrote:Hi, Latest one to hit the dust and seems like the usual way pretending that people are resigning when in fact they have already been fired. Who will be left standing. Let's count the favourable bodies at the moment. If they keep going through the bodies like this will there be any members left by the end of this presidency to reign over, or will they be all fired. Apparently the Almoner made a mistake and sent a message that contained copies of email addresses.

Within five mins. the President told her to resign as Almoner with immediate effect. As far as I am led to believe, the NEC had already replaced the Almoner so asking for her resignation was bit of a fake . Another underhanded way of ruling?

Wow!! I am glad I worked in a regime of ...."you will be sacked next time you do that but you got away with it this time" rather than.... "OUT". It does sound like a set up but it is also another step nearer to loss of all credibility. My sympathy goes to the brave ones who probably rebelled in some way before being catapulted out.

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