Re: Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

by Slatewriter Sun Sep 22, 2024 6:59 pm

If any SNU staff have resigned from head office, they are yet to update the website.
The names of the General Manager and Head of Governance are still visible, together with their email addresses
https://www.snu.org.uk/head-office

by notabigjump Sun Sep 22, 2024 7:06 pm

Slatewriter wrote:If any SNU staff have resigned from head office, they are yet to update the website.
The names of the General Manager and Head of Governance are still visible, together with their email addresses
https://www.snu.org.uk/head-office

They have to work their notice, but also, the website is very slow to update. I believe the Head of governance is 3 month's notice and the General Manager has been there for years, so might be similar. I imagine replacements have not yet been interviewed, nor likely will be before the AGM. Dare I say it probably won't be public before the AGM?

by mac Sun Sep 22, 2024 8:15 pm

I can't see anyone busting a gut to interview for either staff member! Very Happy

by MoMer Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:34 pm

Let’s hope that whoever considers applying for those jobs, is advised to read this thread before filling in any forms and sending their CV’s. I know that they couldn’t pay me enough to do either of them, with the current climate surrounding the SNU and the way it is being run. I do hope we are wrong about what the working environment must be like though, genuinely, for their sakes because I couldn’t imagine working under such conditions. Sadly, if those two have genuinely resigned (I would guess that the top bods would be denying it if it wasn’t true), it can’t be the best place to work. Especially for Rachael to resign, after being there for quite a while and doing the job so well. Lisa, I believe hadn’t there as long, so to resign after such a short time, for me speaks volumes. Nothing feels “safe” at the moment, let’s hope the AGM brings some peace, I just won’t hold my breath.

by Light-Nature-Truth Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:43 pm

MoMer wrote:Let’s hope that whoever considers applying for those jobs, is advised to read this thread before filling in any forms and sending their CV’s. I know that they couldn’t pay me enough to do either of them, with the current climate surrounding the SNU and the way it is being run. I do hope we are wrong about what the working environment must be like though, genuinely, for their sakes because I couldn’t imagine working under such conditions. Sadly, if those two have genuinely resigned (I would guess that the top bods would be denying it if it wasn’t true), it can’t be the best place to work. Especially for Rachael to resign, after being there for quite a while and doing the job so well. Lisa, I believe hadn’t there as long, so to resign after such a short time, for me speaks volumes. Nothing feels “safe” at the moment, let’s hope the AGM brings some peace, I just won’t hold my breath.

It's all very concerning. Very poignant members of staff resigning. The 20 tutors being eradicated with no attempt of resolution from SNU. Yet the main AFC committee members allocate themselves the most weeks at the college to tutor on. A conflict of interest and placing themselves in a very advantageous financial position especially when they control and allocate the weeks at the AFC.
Somebody has said they have actually promoted that fact today on their social media. We know the Spirit is intelligent but there seems no intelligence is presented at all in the organisation at the moment. Just self serving It's like a circus of ego's. Nothing is safe. The union is on fire, and the ones lighting the fires are in power and seem unstoppable...
Dictatorship and nepotism are one of the same, cut from the same dirty cloth.. and serve nothing but themselves

by Admin Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:14 am

mac wrote:In time all this will blow over.

New students will appear and will attend new courses. Those involved now - although hurt, angry and disillusioned - will have moved on.

It's all fresh and raw right now but in 12 months time my bet is that the whole business will have become similar to of the earlier Psychic News scandal with only a handful of individuals able - or interested enough - to recall many of the details.

Mac, I am sure you realise that this is only just the beginning. Minister Wright has much bigger plans. I have been looking at the Articles of Association, the Rules on Bye Laws and the Bye Laws themselves, she can change the whole place in a myriad of ways.

I doubt that many here even know that the education part of the District Councils has been withdrawn and handed to the central education committee ( no prizes as to its head and membership). She cannot get rid of the DC's without a motion at general meetings, but she can strip them of any work to do.

From what we hear she heads every committee and can not be subject to any legitimate Complaint, anyway she heads that Committee, so there will be no opposition to speak of.

This is not any simple well it will wash over moment and I suspect a gentle (or not gentle) purge to occur over the next two years (or 4 if she gets that, as I think she may).

What may arise may be a very different SNU

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:I went and had a look on the college website as I had read they had taken the tutors information down and just left their photo's and not available 2025. I'm know thinking like was mentioned before that JW had no intention of having them back.
Also I went and looked on both JW and PJ pages and JW has given herself 12 courses and PJ has given himself 11 courses.
I wonder how JW can do her full time job as President of the Union while cavorting around the college for most of the year.

It is a good point, while highlighting her affinities with the Churches she is reducing her time to be President. I suspect we may see some changes on where the SNU HQ has to be based to help fix that issue.

I also believe there has been a disconnect between the AFC and the bigger SNU Churches. I have already commented how learning to be a mediums has to start at these with good circles. You can never become a decent medium just from AFC courses. Yet that looks like becoming an even bigger focus rather than providing support to churches via the DC's. I also feel that some of the Churches must feel their importance is understated by the emphasis (especially overseas on the AFC and Tutors). I think that disconnect has been widely used by Minister Wright to get the Churches onside, so to place herself so completely within the AFC may actually rebound, unless she fixes the disconnect.

by MoMer Mon Sep 23, 2024 4:09 am

I believe that even if she gets the four years through, it won’t take effect for this term, that’s my understanding of it but I could be wrong. Even if I’m right though, that doesn’t mean that it will stop JW from doing what the hell she likes anyway, that is her M.O. after all. Whatever comes her way though, I believe she will tough it out, there’s too much for her to lose now, I just hope that she doesn’t get to bring the union and those who are following her out of naivety down with her when it comes crumbling down. I guess they can’t say that they weren’t warned though. She has an opportunity to show some humility, to hold her hands up and admit that she has gone about things the wrong way but, thus far no humility whatsoever has been shown and, for a woman who claims to be “of service” the only service we seem to be witnessing is self service. This excrement show is far from over and I feel that she will wreak a lot more havoc before she’s finished.

by notabigjump Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:38 am

The AFC is heading towards losing it's cherished status as the global beacon of spiritual development and mediumship. Already we see one of it's respected tutors filling a 5 day residential course in the same area, within 3 days. The venue has greater luxurious accommodation and stunning grounds to enjoy. Soon others will find their bases. The students will come to them as the 20 tutors in exile, are all highly respected. The lengthy delays in resolving the conflict are impacting college bookings and the gift of Arthur Findlay is rapidly losing its shine. I believe it's reversible, but it needs the SNU to wake up quickly, or lose their once greatest asset. Time for the current administration to put ego aside and share peace and resolution. Isn't that what the Spiritualism should be promoting?

by mac Mon Sep 23, 2024 11:39 am

Admin wrote:
mac wrote:In time all this will blow over.

New students will appear and will attend new courses. Those involved now - although hurt, angry and disillusioned - will have moved on.

It's all fresh and raw right now but in 12 months time my bet is that the whole business will have become similar to of the earlier Psychic News scandal with only a handful of individuals able - or interested enough - to recall many of the details.

Mac, I am sure you realise that this is only just the beginning. Minister Wright has much bigger plans. I have been looking at the Articles of Association, the Rules on Bye Laws and the Bye Laws themselves, she can change the whole place in a myriad of ways.

Oh since following this thread I'm now aware what the President/Minister/tutor may have future plans for.

What I think, though, is that most folk will be distant from much of most changes and the comparative few who aren't may lose their motivation to remain involved - it happens. 12 months down the line we'll see if anyone is still discussing this topic.

by Janhar Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:22 pm

mac wrote:
Admin wrote:
mac wrote:In time all this will blow over.

New students will appear and will attend new courses. Those involved now - although hurt, angry and disillusioned - will have moved on.

Mac

What I think, though, is that most folk will be distant from much of most changes and the comparative few who aren't may lose their motivation to remain involved - it happens. 12 months down the line we'll see if anyone is still discussing this topic?
It depends how much time Simon and Brian are prepared to be in the UK. They have their main home along with their own church in Canada. Paul Jacobs would probably be available pretty much all year round if requested. Eileen appears to be booked at the College for one more week this year and 3 weeks next year, though she is doing her own thing, as previously mentioned, at another Stansted venue which sounds very nice next May. I wonder if she is planning more ? These are probably the most popular remaining tutors with a few others who are close behind. The rest will be done by new tutors. Not an impossible task for them by any means but hugely demanding for Simon and Brian in particular, so yes it does look like it is going to be too much of Jackie and Paul for the foreseeable and I don't think think J W can carry it off for more than a year along with being President. One or two new tutors will be an instant big hit I guess. I have one particularly in mind who was there years ago but got sidelined after Glyn died. (He was the tutor who used to invite her on courses). Not your usual run of the mill SNU tutor... as Glyn wasn't. Much to share.
Even so, they have lost 20 popular tutors, (unless Jackie goes). I think they can survive however, and I think if the College seems likely to fall, JW is likely to be sacrificed before the College is.

by mac Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:14 pm

Janhar wrote:
It depends how much time Simon and Brian are prepared to be in the UK. They have their main home along with their own church in Canada. Paul Jacobs would probably be available pretty much all year round if requested. Eileen appears to be booked at the College for one more week this year and 3 weeks next year, though she is doing her own thing, as previously mentioned, at another Stansted venue which sounds very nice next May. I wonder if she is planning more ? These are probably the most popular remaining tutors with a few others who are close behind. The rest will be done by new tutors. Not an impossible task for them by any means but hugely demanding for Simon and Brian in particular, so yes it does look like it is going to be too much of Jackie and Paul for the foreseeable and I don't think think J W can carry it off for more than a year along with being President. One or two new tutors will be an instant big hit I guess. I have one particularly in mind who was there years ago but got sidelined after Glyn died. (He was the tutor who used to invite her on courses). Not your usual run of the mill SNU tutor... as Glyn wasn't. Much to share.
Even so, they have lost 20 popular tutors, (unless Jackie goes). I think they can survive however, and I think if the College seems likely to fall, JW is likely to be sacrificed before the College is.

I don't see how the President would actually be sacrificed or by whom unless it's because of regulatory involvement. How well and how long she could do more than one role is moot. My guess is the 20 tutors could carry out their role in any suitable alternative venue such as mentioned above. It wouldn't be somewhere with the College's historical connections but that may be less important than their tutoring not being available at all.

When the AGM is over we'll have a better idea what comes next. Until then it's mostly conjecture.

by Slatewriter Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:33 pm

I don't expect the clash between the tutors and the AFC will be discussed at the AGM, so unless there's a much needed coup during or before then, I think we'll learn very little after the meeting. Results from inquiries, interviews, consultations and investigations are what we should look out for.

by mac Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:12 pm

Slatewriter wrote:I don't expect the clash between the tutors and the AFC will be discussed at the AGM, so unless there's a much needed coup during or before then, I think we'll learn very little after the meeting. Results from inquiries, interviews, consultations and investigations are what we should look out for.

What we will know is the outcome of the voting and that will influence whether the tutors ever work again at the college after the outcomes of any official investigations are made known.

by notabigjump Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:26 pm

Janhar wrote:
It depends how much time Simon and Brian are prepared to be in the UK. They have their main home along with their own church in Canada. Paul Jacobs would probably be available pretty much all year round if requested. Eileen appears to be booked at the College for one more week this year and 3 weeks next year, though she is doing her own thing, as previously mentioned, at another Stansted venue which sounds very nice next May. I wonder if she is planning more ? These are probably the most popular remaining tutors with a few others who are close behind. The rest will be done by new tutors. Not an impossible task for them by any means but hugely demanding for Simon and Brian in particular, so yes it does look like it is going to be too much of Jackie and Paul for the foreseeable and I don't think think J W can carry it off for more than a year along with being President. One or two new tutors will be an instant big hit I guess. I have one particularly in mind who was there years ago but got sidelined after Glyn died. (He was the tutor who used to invite her on courses). Not your usual run of the mill SNU tutor... as Glyn wasn't. Much to share.
Even so, they have lost 20 popular tutors, (unless Jackie goes). I think they can survive however, and I think if the College seems likely to fall, JW is likely to be sacrificed before the College is.

I don't see how the President would actually be sacrificed or by whom unless it's because of regulatory involvement. How well and how long she could do more than one role is moot. My guess is the 20 tutors could carry out their role in any suitable alternative venue such as mentioned above. It wouldn't be somewhere with the College's historical connections but that may be less important than their tutoring not being available at all.

[/quote]

Simon and Brain don't have the same pulling power as they once had. I am also told Paul will need a lengthy break in the near future too. I fear nostalgia of long ago is rosier than today's reality. Most of the exiled tutors I believe are now more current, popular and their following significant - if recent student feedback is anything to go by.

by Janhar Mon Sep 23, 2024 5:09 pm

It depends how much time Simon and Brian are prepared to be in the UK. They have their main home along with their own church in Canada. Paul Jacobs would probably be available pretty much all year round if requested. Eileen appears to be booked at the College for one more week this year and 3 weeks next year, though she is doing her own thing, as previously mentioned, at another Stansted venue which sounds very nice next May. I wonder if she is planning more ? These are probably the most popular remaining tutors with a few others who are close behind. The rest will be done by new tutors. Not an impossible task for them by any means but hugely demanding for Simon and Brian in particular, so yes it does look like it is going to be too much of Jackie and Paul for the foreseeable and I don't think think J W can carry it off for more than a year along with being President. One or two new tutors will be an instant big hit I guess. I have one particularly in mind who was there years ago but got sidelined after Glyn died. (He was the tutor who used to invite her on courses). Not your usual run of the mill SNU tutor... as Glyn wasn't. Much to share.
Even so, they have lost 20 popular tutors, (unless Jackie goes). I think they can survive however, and I think if the College seems likely to fall, JW is likely to be sacrificed before the College is.[/

Quote from notabigjump
Simon and Brain don't have the same pulling power as they once had. I am also told Paul will need a lengthy break in the near future too. I fear nostalgia of long ago is rosier than today's reality. Most of the exiled tutors I believe are now more current, popular and their following significant - if recent student feedback is anything to go by.[/quote]

Reply from janhar
Oh absolutely I agree, the 20 tutors are all good and amongst them, without naming, are some who have gained much success outside the SNU and this is not liked by others who choose to stay within the SNU framework. It is resented in fact, and we have seen this clearly though it has not been stated as such publicly. Antagonism to their success has resulted in JW and PJ losing more tutors than they wanted to lose. In order to stitch up a few, they had to put more restrictions on all, and this resulted in a mutiny from 20 brave ones.

by Janhar Mon Sep 23, 2024 5:37 pm

mac wrote:
I don't see how the President would actually be sacrificed or by whom unless it's because of regulatory involvement. How well and how long she could do more than one role is moot. My guess is the 20 tutors could carry out their role in any suitable alternative venue such as mentioned above. It wouldn't be somewhere with the College's historical connections but that may be less important than their tutoring not being available at all.

When the AGM is over we'll have a better idea what comes next. Until then it's mostly conjecture.

I think she could pull this around, as you also think.
All could be forgotten, I agree.
The 20 tutors will be just fine, we all know that.
However, if she failed to do it and the college was going down, I think she would lose so much support that a vote of no confidence would be arranged, somehow. Her authority over everything to stop that happening would be taken away, somehow, because unless the NEC really wants to lose the college they could stop it. This is why I think it will survive, for a while yet.

by Light-Nature-Truth Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:52 pm

Janhar wrote:
mac wrote:
I don't see how the President would actually be sacrificed or by whom unless it's because of regulatory involvement. How well and how long she could do more than one role is moot. My guess is the 20 tutors could carry out their role in any suitable alternative venue such as mentioned above. It wouldn't be somewhere with the College's historical connections but that may be less important than their tutoring not being available at all.

When the AGM is over we'll have a better idea what comes next. Until then it's mostly conjecture.
I think she could pull this around, as you also think.
All could be forgotten, I agree.
The 20 tutors will be just fine, we all know that.
However, if she failed to do it and the college was going down, I think she would lose so much support that a vote of no confidence would be arranged, somehow. Her authority over everything to stop that happening would be taken away, somehow, because unless the NEC really wants to lose the college they could stop it. This is why I think it will survive, for a while yet.

I don't think the president realises the damage she has done, and what the potential legal consequences and financial implications are held in her actions.
The 20 tutors will be fine I'm sure. But it would be interesting to know how much they have lost in cancellations from online courses as well as 2024 and 2025 programme. AFC is the main income for the religion which is a charity and governed by the commission.
From past experience working for charitable organisations, this is a major incident. The actions of the NEC and enabling this to happen is questionable. Are they really qualified for such accountability and responsibility?

Has a vote of no confidence in the president or indeed the whole NEC at an AGM ever happened in the history of the SNU?
This AGM could certainly be one for the history books...sadly

by mac Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:36 pm

We don't even know if there is any such mechanism as a 'vote of no confidence' in an SNU leader. It needs considerable knowledge of the rules and procedures governing the operation of the SNU.

Also it's impossible to know what the President knows. She could be unaware of the many potential issues we've discussed throughout this long thread. Equally she might know but not care. Or she might feel it's not a significant risk to her. She could be right....

None of us knows for certain if the regulatory bodies can and/or will step in and if they don't then we might well assume that all we've discussed is likely to follow.

by mac Tue Sep 24, 2024 11:43 am

As I understand things.....

Several pages back Jim wrote about the recent online voting for President and officers potentially being invalid because it hadn't been approved beforehand. The implication of that being the President's return to office is presently invalid.

The Fundraising Regulator has yet to declare her/his findings concerning the crowd-funding appeal.

We don't know if anyone from Companies House is investigating whether there has been any transgressions of business laws.

The AGM is only several days away and there will be further voting. It's unclear whether that vote will be valid if the meeting isn't properly constituted because of what's above.

Proxy votes need to be registered before the weekend.

There will be Zoom coverage of the AGM but it's unclear if it is a public meeting i.e. non-members able to attend.

Those able to vote at the AGM will need to use an identifier, presumably the code sent earlier.

As far as I can see these are the only matters that immediately impact regular SNU members.

by Janhar Tue Sep 24, 2024 8:44 pm

Another course gone up in FB for the other Stansted venue. This one is for next July. with Eileen. Interestingly, two of the tutors with her are from the 20. Click link.

https://servimg.com/view/20583016/4

by notabigjump Tue Sep 24, 2024 9:23 pm

Janhar wrote:Another course gone up in FB for the other Stansted venue. This one is for next July. with Eileen. Interestingly, two of the tutors with her are from the 20. Click link.

https://servimg.com/view/20583016/4

That's good to hear, because the SNU have taken an unnecessary length of time to resolve this. I feel these tutors have been hung out to dry. Now they (SNU) must realise they won't always have the monopoly on residential courses and there are other wonderful venues.

by OnlyVisitingEarth Tue Sep 24, 2024 10:00 pm

I saw the new advert for the second course run at this 'new' place. I have friends who tried to get on the first course there and it was fully booked in two days, they are on a waiting list so I suspect they have already emailed their interest for this new course, they also told me there is another waiting list for cancellations for the first course!!! The same friends sent me the information on the 'new' place and it looks lovely, and unlike a couple of rooms at a hotel this place has the same energy as AFC will have , or I expect it will have as it's a spiritual retreat.
I like many others want our tutors back where they belong at AFC but if that is not possible, then I like many others will follow our tutors.
I cannot work out what those few who are engineering this monumental cock up are thinking or are they so pumped up with Ego that they cannot read the room, that they have surrounded themselves with so many sycophants and yes people that we have a modern day version of 'The Emperors New Clothes' playing out!!
Also I have seen people are posting that so far there has been 26,000 plus views on this thread about the tutors and the SNU!!! Is that correct?
I suppose we will know soon enough, but I can't help feeling that as someone else mentioned the good name of the college will not be what it was if the tutors are not returned, and if more places like this new one emerges in the next few months then why would the tutors want to come back to a place that now holds so many bad feelings and bad energy.

by Lis Wed Sep 25, 2024 12:16 am

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:
Also I have seen people are posting that so far there has been 26,000 plus views on this thread about the tutors and the SNU!!! Is that correct?

Yes, indeed, "OnlyVisitingEarth," as of September 24/5 there have been26,256 views.

Even taking into account repeat visits, and the posts from those who have wished to express their views, that leaves and enormous number of forum members and even more guests who are reading this thread and even more importantly, sharing what is posted to others elsewhere, both online and privately.

The current SNU president may prevail in their pursuit of power in the short term, but the level of interest being shown in the issues that have been raised on this forum would indicate that there is a significant level of concern and discontent.

If so, I fear that the president and her supporters may all too soon discover that their attitude and actions, especially with regard to the tutors, but also the far-reaching changes being made to the operation of the SNU as a result of the alterations in the by-laws, will, in the final analysis, mean that their reign of power will not last.

Just how it will be brought to an end, is not yet clear, but that it will happen is almost inevitable.

Invalidly re-elected. Preparing at the AGM to endorse that invalidity, as if somehow that makes it all right, while at the same time introducing new by-laws that give the president even more unbridled power, may be inevitable, unless enough SNU members stand up and vote against the changes. In doing so they would effectively bring an end to the current rulers reign.

At this stage it is ALL up to the MEMBERS to bring an end to the current situation. If the members do not speak up and vote at the AGM, then it will be on their conscience that by their failure to do so they have by default, validated and endorsed the actions of the current president and her supporters.

It is so easy to say, my vote won't make a difference. To argue that any attempt to vote against will be ignored or defeated.

It is also so easy to say, I don't like what has been going on so I will leave, give up my membership, and walk away. Go elsewhere, follow the tutors and move on with life.

But in taking that position, power is effectively handed over to the current crew. The SNU membership may be diminished, but their power base will be stronger, and there will be fewer people to voice concern, or bring about change.

If there are people who do value what the SNU stands for, and what it should be doing to represent Spiritualism and its Spiritualist membership, then stand up and fight against the injustice that is perceived to be happening. Fight against the changes that increase the power of the current leadership. Fight to bring a more democratic management of the SNU and the AFC into play.

If the members don't act, and use their valid rights and power as members of the Union to fight against what they see is wrong, then don't complain, criticise, or argue about perceived injustices. The current crew only have power because the membership has given them power. it is the membership that can take that power away.

by Admin Wed Sep 25, 2024 12:33 am

I agree totally with Lis's last post.

Indeed I believe the good people should get more to join as IM's.

Why not propose at the AGM a move not to give churches 5 votes but to create a means by which a person who becomes a member of one of the SNU's churches then would also be a member of the SNU, in their own right. Then they can express ther own intent in voting rather than allow the Church Committee to do it for them.

At the least it would make a big difference to the size of the SNU membership

I have not had a reply from Companies house, love to know if anyone else has, I note they normally give the person complained of a right to written reply. I doubt the President is going to reply to them very quickly or reply in anything other than a glowing testimony to their veracity.

by Slatewriter Wed Sep 25, 2024 12:56 am

Admin wrote:I have not had a reply from Companies house.

Have they at least acknowledged your complaint?
(If not I think perhaps you ought to get back in touch with them)

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