Physical mediumship in dark or light ???

Yes welcome Swordmaiden

Jim

From memory, the 'exposing' was done ny Ron Baker and Albert Best and not the NoW.
Their reasoning was that it was better by far that Spiritualism was seen to 'clean up' itself, rather than have this done by hostile outsiders - as was the climate of that time.
Never having met Paul, I have no view of the honesty of his actions.

Swordmaiden wrote:I just read the previous posts about Paul McElhoney. I was married to him when he was at the height of his mediumship. I have to say that he was treated unfairly by the tabloid press at the time and by many people who had supported him and used him. Very sad business.

Hi Swordmaiden

Obviously I know nothing of the circumstances, could you please share your views. I am well aware that others also felt Chay Backshall was also badly treated.

Jim

Hi, thank you for the welcome. Yes Paul is alive and well though we split up a long time ago. I have no idea if he is still into his mediumship as I am not in touch (through choice). I know the whole "exposure" thing was a terrible shock to him, and to me, although I was not at that sitting. He channelled a guide called Ceros who was quite wonderful. The apports were not the important part of our weekly sittings, the lectures went on for several hours non-stop. The apports were " a glint to catch the eye" Ceros used to say. I found it hard to understand why they think Paul would have crammed a carnation into this tape recorder when at the MANY sittings I witnessed( all private with a regular little group) there would be dozens of flowers, all fresh, even with dew on...not all squished up. We had several test sittings under strict controls. Sad business. x

You are amongst friends on here swordmaiden. Thank you for sharing those experiences.
Why bother with apports in a closed circle?
Sounds genuine enough to me. Those are exactly the non commercial conditions where one would expect to experience physical phenomena.
Do you still keep up with Spiritualsm?

Swordmaiden wrote:Hi, thank you for the welcome. Yes Paul is alive and well though we split up a long time ago. I have no idea if he is still into his mediumship as I am not in touch (through choice). I know the whole "exposure" thing was a terrible shock to him, and to me, although I was not at that sitting. He channelled a guide called Ceros who was quite wonderful. The apports were not the important part of our weekly sittings, the lectures went on for several hours non-stop. The apports were " a glint to catch the eye" Ceros used to say. I found it hard to understand why they think Paul would have crammed a carnation into this tape recorder when at the MANY sittings I witnessed( all private with a regular little group) there would be dozens of flowers, all fresh, even with dew on...not all squished up. We had several test sittings under strict controls. Sad business. x

Wow wasn't aware of that, I've a book that mentions Paul in a positive light, to do with a lady of the SPR, who received an apport from Ceros, (wasn't he Greek or Egyptian, can't quite remember) But anyway, the apport had a significance, it involved an object her the lady's mother had when on her honeymoon. But she was quite astonished as no one could have known that. She was impressed by Paul's mediumship.

Thanks you Martk74. Ceros was Italian, from the time of Pope Sixtus IV. He apparrently split from the church in Rome and became a herbalist, a bit of a maverick.

Thanks KatyKing. No, although I was brought up as a Spiritualist, worked for a time at SAGB in Belgrave Sqr and married a medium, I am now an Atheist and no longer have the beliefs which, I must admit, sustained me for many years. Life is different now. I used to say I could not imagine going through life not believing in life after death, well now I am doing just that. Don't worry, I am not a troll or anything. Still exploring life without the old belief system.

Swordmaiden wrote:Thanks KatyKing. No, although I was brought up as a Spiritualist, worked for a time at SAGB in Belgrave Sqr and married a medium, I am now an Atheist and no longer have the beliefs which, I must admit, sustained me for many years. Life is different now. I used to say I could not imagine going through life not believing in life after death, well now I am doing just that. Don't worry, I am not a troll or anything. Still exploring life without the old belief system.

I don't know what led to your atheism and don't know what atheism means to you.

I do know that when one sees terrible behaviour and cruelty/ignorance from people who espouse certain beliefs - well, it is sometimes enough to turn people away. Even incredible weakness in those believers is sometimes enough to turn people away.

I was an agnostic for many years but it was more because I simple couldn't accept the arguments of the Catholic Church as an institution. They seemed quite silly and without foundation. I did know a few very special people who were Catholics, however, so I never wrote the whole thing off

I can see where belief can waver but would miss the social side if nothing else. We get one or two like that who think it's all nonsense but enjoy the company.
Well swordmaiden you could tell a few tales from SAGB days I bet.
No love lost amongst some of the mediums who worked there back when 'Dorises' roamed the earth... :-)
If you were there when Tony was editing PN in eighties then I suspect that we may have met.
You must come to tea if ever you are in this neck of the woods. Mrs K sets a fine table.

Yes, Doris Stokes, Coral Polge, etc all worked there then. It was in the late 70's. Would love to meet up but sadly not often in your area. Likewise, if you pass through Folkestone, come for tea! :-)
I may not believe in life after death any more but I do believe in cake!

Swordmaiden wrote:Thanks you Martk74. Ceros was Italian, from the time of Pope Sixtus IV. He apparrently split from the church in Rome and became a herbalist, a bit of a maverick.

Thanks for the clarification Swordmaiden. I know a few that seen Paul work and they were impressed. Is he still working with his mediumship these days.

I have no idea. I last sat with him when we lived in Manchester in the late 80's. He remarried and had another family since then.

If you were the lady collecting money on door then yes. Thanks for invite sm you never know when paths recross.
I was there that afternoon they had the bomb scare and we all had to come out. IRA days that was.

No, I was a young receptionist at SAGB.Don't remember the bomb scare....I guess someone there should have known it was going to happen....? Yes it was the IRA days, I frequently got in trouble for being late cos there was a bomb scare on the tube!

Happy days.

What people do in their private home circles is up to them of course. I would suggest that perhaps it is better to start off in some kind of light, as moving from sitting in the dark to light at some point might hold back development, almost like starting again.
I have never personally experienced convincing survival evidence in dark seance conditions, when sitting in two physical circles and in Noah's Ark Society seances, but quite a few signs and wonders. There will always be doubt in the dark. Direct voice can be mimicry or fraud, or confused with trance speaking. By definition, materialisation has to be seen in the light, so that's ruled out. Therefore I can't see how survival evidence can be provided in the dark.
I don't see the point in paying to attend public seances for signs and wonders in dark conditions, which might or might not be genuine, but many want to experience this, it's up to them, as long as they are not promised something else they don't get.
A physical medium, in my opinion, should not go public until he or she can provide objective survival evidence in light conditions. It has been done before, and there's no reason in principle why it shouldn't happen again.

I agree with you normy, what seances did you attend with the Norah's Ark?

Hi Mark, I attended with Stewart Alexander and with Colin Fry, at seminars, and at Bath with Colin. I did not sit at their home circles though.

To some I probably have some very strange views.... I sometimes Think I am the black sheep of the pro Physical and the not so Pro... As My views dont seem to fit in anywhere ha.. but then I am used to that, But I also think my views have been shaped by spirit and how spirit work with me... and i know that spirit dont work with me in the so called normal ways so i guess my views will never be excepted by the so called normal..
But for me its simple..... light or dark... wheres the evidence? and i mean evidence of the continuation of life,,, not aliens and all that lot... as soon as thats mentioned I switch off and think mehhhh...
I once had a reply to a post that i posted on another site... about the question of evidence.... and the Medium replied that evidence of the continuation of life was a spiritualist thing.... and that in germany they were not into that.... they are more into phenomina... and anyway.... the higher inter dimensial beings that they worked with had more important things to do..... like save humanity.... I didnt bother to answer,,,, as good luck with that... and i guess im a spiritualist... were the kind thoughts i had.,,, so i wouldnt have been constructive... but i did think that if physical mediumship had that kind of nonsence being spoken by one of its representives no wonder people are a bit,,, yea...
But with any mediumship physical or mental it is my belief that it is all about evidence... but one thing that does upset me,,,, is when the excuse is used in physical mediumship... that we have no right to ask and take what we get and bla bla bla.... but then i have heard the same thing in mental mediumship.... and personally i think the same about both.... mehhh... why do we credit spirit so little.... sometimes it seems to me we treat spirit like there are less than us... and i just dont get that.... spirit want to provide evidence that life continues as much as we do.... and that to me is a simple fact,,, and its not spirit that cannot do.... its us as humans... You hear it.... be patient with spirit....errrrr NO... i dont need to.... its spirit being pateint with us.. its us that have limitations not spirit.... and yes i agree sometimes we need to be patient.... but not with spirit.... with ourselves..
anyway I am starting to ramble now... so i better stop as i wouldnt wanna subject you all to me in full flow..ha...
anyway... simple point.... light or dark... platform or cabinet... the evidence is everything.x.

Just to clarify... i am not saying we should sit with demands at all... as we should sit with open loving hearts.... I was making the point about excuses for no evidence ect.x

Normy and Bravo, why do you think that physical mediums do "go on the road" and perform only in the dark? Are they simply not ready or are they driven by an agenda other than service to spirit? Such as ego, greed, or not being genuine?

Greed has to be a factor given what some of them charge but then you get the righteous dudes like young Milligan and some others. Colin I reckon was the real deal but then he was pressured into 'producing' more and more and look how that ended up.
Someone on here was saying he'd been sitting to develop PM for years. I just ask myself Why?
Just what is the point of PM when it's just tambourines and flying trumpets and such like?
Bit of a show for a select few hobbyists? OK good luck but where's the comfort in that?
Flippin' poltergeist'll bring you more and they are a bleddy nuisance that folk are glad to see the back of.
Manifestations take that much energy that on the odd time someone does get one these days by the time something has built there's not enough energy left for a proper chat. So why go to all that trouble when spirit friends can easily communicate through a mental medium and the recipient knows if what's brought is right or not?I must come across sometimes as being anti PM but really I'm not apart from the shysters and that's not PM nyway it's just lousy magic sold at ridiculous prices.. We needed PM in the early days we got it and that's our heritage but we've moved on since then. Fair play tip a table or two,t hat' good fun and you can get answers now and again but you'll always get more from mental mediumship.
Those who are into the sort of PM around the names we are aware of come across like daft groupies. Everything that's done by their chosen ones has to be wonderful even if it'snot.
Poor old George of blessed memory was forever banging on about Leslie Flint and fair play he was a well tested DV medium but LF's long gone to his reward and frankly some of his work on record is less than convincing. PM is such a blast from the past,even where it's right, without verifiable survival evidence it has to be just a futile exercise in ever so slightly sad nostalgia.

I wouldnt want to answer that about people i know not that much about wes... as they may be producing fabulous evidence.. and i wouldnt know it..
I know how the mediumship is developing in our circle... we sit in the light and the dark during the sitting,,, the stuff we are getting in the light is wonderfull and we hope to demonstrate that one day... not for gain... But for the same reason I demonstrate mental mediumship,x