Physical mediumship in dark or light ???

LeroyC wrote: The topics been done to death.

Very funny

I've yet to discover where and when the idea that physical mediumship had to be developed and demonstrated in darkness with the medium in a curtained off area or cabinet. Were there seances held in this way before 1848?
In Cesare Lombroso's 'After death what' 1909, he writes about the American Indians using a cylindrical cell made of oak bark and when the diviner entered the dark interior a great noise begins and voices are heard, one weak, the other very loud (that of the priest) The first, or weak, voice imparts the revelation.
This sounds to me like independent voice mediumship.
The medicine-man, or magician, during consultations shakes the wigwam in which he sits, which by jerks or blows replies to questions.
This reminds me of a post on here recently by someone who was sitting in a cabinet and the cabinet shook and answered questions.
An Indian medicine-man constructed three little wigwams of hides, each hardly large enough to hold a man. He placed them about two feet apart. In one he put his moccasins, in another his leggins, in the third himself. Every Indian who wished to speak with a deceased person applied to the medicine-man and soon the tents began to be shaken and voices issued from all three even at the same time...
So darkness and cabinets were very much in use with the American Indians.

Yeas the indians have there swett lodge

Quiet wrote:

Swordmaiden wrote:I just read the previous posts about Paul McElhoney. I was married to him when he was at the height of his mediumship. I have to say that he was treated unfairly by the tabloid press at the time and by many people who had supported him and used him. Very sad business.

Welcome to the forum, Swordmaiden.  Hope you stay around and contribute more    

It is very sad when people comment on things they did not experience. In your case you were not there in Salford on the night your former husband was caught in fraudulent action. The number of witnesses to this event were considerable. Your former husband's integrity was clearly in shatters prior to the events of that evening - there is clearly much you don't know. Perhaps before you make extraordinary comments, it would be judicious to confirm the facts of the evening from people who witnessed the events and were also present.

The reports in the News of the World, and Psychic News were accurate and witnessed. Can over 30 people be wrong in what they saw on that evening? I don’t think so! It's time Paul came clean and admitted he did wrong.

hiorta wrote:From memory, the 'exposing' was done ny Ron Baker and Albert Best and not the NoW.
Their reasoning was that it was better by far that Spiritualism was seen to 'clean up' itself, rather than have this done by hostile outsiders - as was the climate of that time.
Never having met Paul, I have no view of the honesty of his actions.

I am sorry to say, but your memory is not serving you well. Ron Baker, Gordon Higginson, and others were involved in the exposing of Paul. Albert was aware that this was happening, but he was not involved.

Swordmaiden wrote:Thanks you Martk74. Ceros was Italian, from the time of Pope Sixtus IV. He apparrently split from the church in Rome and became a herbalist, a bit of a maverick.  

Ceros was a figment of Paul's subconscious mind and nothing more.

KatyKing wrote:Who is/was Paul McElhoney?

Paul, was classed as a physical medium.. However, he was exposed as a fraud in the 1980s. Ron Baker headed up the team who exposed him. Gordon Higginson was involved, along with a considerable number of other people.

Azur wrote:  I remember some years ago there was fraud uncovered at the Arthur Findlay College, with some physical medium can't remember his name think he was from Liverpool area, but medium Glynn edward was involved as well, I remember it was a big shock Judith seaman was president at the time and it was covered up.  It's years since I have went to the college now but it would make you think.

I think you will find that it was Leonard Young who caught the fraudulent physical medium Richard.

Thank you Stelty its good to get information from people who were there

Hello forum:

Does anybody here know more about the alleged fraud of Kai Muegge?

See page 9 of the 2014 pdf program of the 33rd Annual Conference of the Society for Scientific Exploration in San Francisco; check their homepage under "Meetings" (sorry - new forum members are apparently not allowed to post full www links).


Pete

Very interesting report by Stephen Braude, now he first reviewed the Felix Group to much fanfare but here we see something quite different. Thanks for that post, I must check why you cannot post links.

http://www.scientificexploration.org/meetings/2014-SSE-Program.pdf
Investigation of the Felix Experimental Group: A Status Report
Stephen E. Braude
Emeritus Professor of Philosophy
University of Maryland Baltimore County
Editor-in-Chief, JSE
This talk summarizes and reports the latest developments of my investigation of the Felix
Experimental Group (FEG) and its exhibitions of classical physical mediumship. It’s
been nearly a century since investigators have had the opportunity to carefully study
standard spiritistic phenomena, including the extruding of ectoplasm, and the FEG is the
only current physical mediumistic circle permitting any serious controls.
At last year’s SSE conference I reported the progressively stringent séances I supervised
with the FEG, culminating in some very careful experiments with video documentation in
a secure and private location in Austria belonging to one of the investigators. These latter
séances yielded videos of a full table levitation, and also the medium apparently
extruding a large quantity of ectoplasm from his mouth, which then accumulated in an
apparently animated heap on the floor in front of him. The ectoplasm was produced
despite numerous controls, including a careful strip search of the medium, examination of
the medium’s clothes, and inspection of the cabinet in which he sat.
Recently, evidence has surfaced from séances other than those I’ve conducted suggesting
strongly that the FEG medium, Kai Muegge, may have resorted to fraud on several of
those occasions. Although this has clearly tarnished the case as a whole, it remains
unclear whether (or to what extent) the hypothesis of fraud can be deployed successfully
with respect to all the FEG phenomena, and my investigations in particular. Thus, it
remains unclear whether Kai’s mediumship deserves being classified charitably as a case
of “mixed” mediumship (combining both fraudulent and genuine phenomena). By
contrast, in several other, well-known, cases of mixed mediumship—for example that of
Eusapia Palladino, some phenomena seem quite clearly to be genuine. However, that
conclusion is warranted because Palladino (and others) produced phenomena under much
more stringent controls than Kai Muegge has so far allowed.
In this talk I’ll summarize the arguments both for and against the paranormality of the
FEG phenomena generally, and I’ll discuss what steps Kai must take to dispel the cloud
of suspicion currently hanging over all his phenomena.

That is only the abstract if anyone has the papers it would be worth a full read. Indeed DVD's of the conference can be obtained here. http://www.scientificexploration.org/meetings/past-conferences.html

Session 6 which, covers this presentation, can be ordered as a DVD here for $25 http://evolutioni.com/sse-conference-submission-page.html

I had seen and heard rumours but nothing really strong enough to put on here, so one wonders what Stephen Braude is reporting on and who is the source of information. Interesting that, of all the current crop of physical mediums, Kai is the only one to really push the boundaries on light and photography all the others prefer to remain in mushroom mode.

Well then, I'd suggest to stay tuned for the upcoming issue(s) of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.
Some time ago, Kai Muegge proudly announced on his blog that an issue featuring a paper by Stephen Braude about his mediumship was about to be published. But as it seems, this paper has not yet been published, and Muegge has removed this announcement from his blog again.
If Braude talked about fraud in his recent presentation at the SSE conference, he might have adapted his paper for the JSE accordingly.

Pete

Thanks Pete I will do.

I realise Kai was discussed on here a while back with conflicting views https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t1720p75-a-very-heavy-heart-about-all-this#18060

  

Perhaps he sees his job as being able to test Kai Muegge under the same conditions that he has tested other physical mediums, which isn't possible for some reason..

\"I don't understand. Why is Braude collecting and reporting anecdotal evidence on Kai Muegge? His job so to speak it is to look at his observable evidences and make judgments based on that data. Waller wrote:"]

Given Stephen Braude made those comments in both a written paper and to a large gathering at the conference I would be sure that he was certain about the information provided to him. It will be interesting to see the full presentation on DVD and his subsequent paper in the JSE.

Jim

Petco wrote:Hello forum:

Does anybody here know more about the alleged fraud of Kai Muegge?

See page 9 of the 2014 pdf program of the 33rd Annual Conference of the Society for Scientific Exploration in San Francisco; check their homepage under "Meetings" (sorry - new forum members are apparently not allowed to post full www links).


Pete

I do. Muegge has bought cobweb in the internet, luminous and non luminous in amounts of more than a kilo. When Michael Nahm wo was sitter and investigator of the FEG asked Muegge on cobweb he denied even knowing of such substances. Bad luck for Muegge Michael Nahm had first Hand evidence of the items Muegge bought in his hands. Muegge then stated he just wanted to see how this cobweb stuff varies from ectoplasm and it would be of completely different style. Michael Nahm then proved that the cobweb bought looked exactly like the ectoplams Muegge showed on some photos. More? Muegge deleted articles from his blog when faced by the question of cobweb and other incidents. But archive.org did not Forget and so the images and articles were still there!

There is much more to say but actually that answers your question I guess.

I did some rudimentary searches of archives.org but didn't turn up the blog mentioned above. Could you please provide some details about where to find it?

eternaltruths wrote:

Petco wrote:Hello forum:

Does anybody here know more about the alleged fraud of Kai Muegge?

See page 9 of the 2014 pdf program of the 33rd Annual Conference of the Society for Scientific Exploration in San Francisco; check their homepage under "Meetings" (sorry - new forum members are apparently not allowed to post full www links).


Pete

I do. Muegge has bought cobweb in the internet, luminous and non luminous in amounts of more than a kilo. When Michael Nahm wo was sitter and investigator of the FEG asked Muegge on cobweb he denied even knowing of such substances. Bad luck for Muegge Michael Nahm had first Hand evidence of the items Muegge bought in his hands. Muegge then stated he just wanted to see how this cobweb stuff varies from ectoplasm and it would be of completely different style. Michael Nahm then proved that the cobweb bought looked exactly like the ectoplams Muegge showed on some photos. More? Muegge deleted articles from his blog when faced by   the question of cobweb and other incidents. But archive.org did not Forget and so the images and articles were still there!

There is much more to say but actually that answers your question I guess.

Many thanks eternaltruths - how interesting.
That doesn't seem to throw a good light on Muegge.
Don't understand how precisely Nahm found out about all that - but I'll try to get the full papers of Braude AND Nahm.

Pete

OK here is a précis of the Journal of Scientific Exploration http://carlossalvarado.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/questions-about-the-physical-phenomena-of-the-felix-circle/

thank you, Jim - I appreciate your taking time to look this up for me.