Re: Physical mediumship in dark or light ???

by Azur Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:38 pm

zerdini wrote:
Azur wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

Disagree, of course red light should be wanted, red light should be in every physical circle, regardless.

Reason for red light in a direct voice circle, good clear lighting if the trumpets are being manipulated by spirit for the direct voice.

Independent Direct Voice does not require trumpets!

I am aware of that, Leslie Flint didn't use trumpets as well as other mediums. Just saying if it were the case trumpets where used, it would be much better to see them manipulated by spirit power in well lit red light. That was my point Z Smile

by nick pettitt Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:43 pm

zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

by Azur Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:08 pm

nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

I am not sure if there has ever been instances when the voicebox is actually visible in daylight, but I may be wrong and just haven't heard about it.

I know in the case of Leslie Flint the voices would register above his head and a little to one side of him, there is actually a photograph of Leslie Flint which shows the materialised ectoplasmic voicebox on his left shoulder.

There are two similar photos which captures the voicebox resting on the shoulder of the medium, Jack Webber and the American medium Margery Crandon.

by zerdini Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:22 pm

nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

The voice box is never physically visible - the voices are heard from a point in space near the medium.

by zerdini Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:31 pm

Azur wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

I am not sure if there has ever been instances when the voicebox is actually visible in daylight, but I may be wrong and just haven't heard about it.

I know in the case of Leslie Flint the voices would register above his head and a little to one side of him, there is actually a photograph of Leslie Flint which shows the materialised ectoplasmic voicebox on his left shoulder.

There are two similar photos which captures the voicebox resting on the shoulder of the medium, Jack Webber and the American medium Margery Crandon.

You are correct Azur - the voice box is not visible in daylight.

I have the photograph of Leslie Flint (plus voicebox) which he gave me. All the photgraphs of the voice box (including those of Jack Webber and Margery Crandon) were taken with an infra-red camera and were not visible to the sitters.

I sat with Leslie Flint for over ten years on a regular basis and tape recorded the seances, extracts of which have been played at public seminars over the years.

by Azur Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:06 pm

zerdini wrote:
Azur wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

I am not sure if there has ever been instances when the voicebox is actually visible in daylight, but I may be wrong and just haven't heard about it.

I know in the case of Leslie Flint the voices would register above his head and a little to one side of him, there is actually a photograph of Leslie Flint which shows the materialised ectoplasmic voicebox on his left shoulder.

There are two similar photos which captures the voicebox resting on the shoulder of the medium, Jack Webber and the American medium Margery Crandon.

You are correct Azur - the voice box is not visible in daylight.

I have the photograph of Leslie Flint (plus voicebox) which he gave me. All the photgraphs of the voice box (including those of Jack Webber and Margery Crandon) were taken with an infra-red camera and were not visible to the sitters.

I sat with Leslie Flint for over ten years on a regular basis and tape recorded the seances, extracts of which have been played at public seminars over the years.

Nice one z Smile

You should write a book about your experiences within the phenomena of spiritualism, I would say it would make an excellent read Smile

by nick pettitt Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:52 am

zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

The voice box is never physically visible - the voices are heard from a point in space near the medium.

so is the voice box and connection to the medium still ectoplasm but without the ingredient to make it physically visible? and are the voices as loud as when this happens in the dark?

by Azur Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:18 am

nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

The voice box is never physically visible - the voices are heard from a point in space near the medium.

so is the voice box and connection to the medium still ectoplasm but without the ingredient to make it physically visible? and are the voices as loud as when this happens in the dark?

The voice box will be formed from ectoplasm. It depends on the circle and what the controls in the other world want. With regard to the voices being as loud, I think that would really depend on the medium.

We know from Mona Van Der Watt, who was an outstanding medium of her time, was given a choice by the spirit world. She could sit in complete darkness and develop direct voice, which would be limited to a small number of people or reach a larger audience but the voice would be weaker. She chose the latter. Mona would demonstrate at great halls in the UK, and at one such event a reporter told readers that a high-pitched voice emanated from Mona's left shoulder. At times the voice would travel across the audience and speak to people from just above their heads, but that was exceptional. Usually the voice addressed Mona's guide, who then repeated the communication through the entranced medium. The controlled Mona 'walked around the hall without faltering. Her eyes were shut, but the guide knew who was before him.' Occasionally when demonstrating before an international audience, such as at the International Spiritualist Federation Conferences, she would wear a throat microphone so that all could hear the spirit voice which relayed communications to her. - Originally published by zerdini Smile

She was a phenomenal medium.

by zerdini Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:36 pm

Azur, it's interesting to read the article I wrote about Mona van der Watt quoted back to me! Laughing

by zerdini Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:39 pm

nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
zerdini wrote:
nick pettitt wrote:
Azur wrote:
zerdini wrote:
Blue Lotus wrote:Leslie Flint and John Campbell Sloan sat in the dark.

They were both Direct Voice mediums!

Yes I know but can't red light be used for direct voice. Gordon Higginson use to demonstrate and run courses at the Lindum Hotel, St Annes-on-sea, and if memory serves me well. The trumpets at Gordon's seances would fly around the room at tremendous speed and heights, never once touching the great big chandeliers.

...Why would you want red light for direct voice? It's a bit like wanting the light on to listen to the radio... If anything I would find light a distraction when listening to communications in that way..

It is not necessary, Nick, however some mediums developed the direct voice where it could be heard in daylight e.g Mollie Perriman.

When direct voice is effected in daylight is the voice box physically visible or are the voices just heard from a point in space near the medium?

The voice box is never physically visible - the voices are heard from a point in space near the medium.

so is the voice box and connection to the medium still ectoplasm but without the ingredient to make it physically visible? and are the voices as loud as when this happens in the dark?

Ectoplasm can be visible or invisible, Nick. The voices are as loud as in the dark.

by Azur Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:41 pm

zerdini wrote:Azur, it's interesting to read the article I wrote about Mona van der Watt quoted back to me!

Oops sorry Laughing

I should have mentioned I got it online, great read z. Please write more on Mona Smile

Would you not consider writing a lilttle book about Mona's life's work, just like Rosalind Cattanach did with her books about Nan Mackenzie and Albert Best.

You've had the experience, you knew her very well. Be good to keep her memory alive in spiritualist literature, so in years to come she won't be forgotten about z Smile

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:55 am

Looking back at this thread I think an injection of Emma Hardinge Britten may not come amiss

THE PSYCHOLOGICAL REVIEW - DARK CIRCLES AND CABINETS. Emma Hardinge Britten 1882
.P440 & P 441
Mrs. French never sat for manifes tations except in well-lighted rooms. Mr. Chas.Partridge, of New York, formerly the editor and proprietor of the Spiritual Telegraph, can bear witness to having seen at circles where I and many others have been sitting, hands, arms, and feet, which were solid to the touch, exhibited in brightly lighted apartments .
I may here add, that dark circles for the first fifteen years of my experience were so exceptional that I scarcely ever attended them, and though the exhibition of hands and their touch was so common that I did not deem it worthwhile to keep any record of such manifestations, they always came in the light, and never in such a manner as permitted the smallest loophole for the charge of deception or fraud.

P 443

Through some of our best mediums, as well as by spirit influence through my own lips we have often been exhorted not to sit in the dark, and the assurance has been given that a steadfast circle, amongst the members of which medium power existed, sitting together under good conditions for given periods of time, in subdued light, would and could obtain all that ever has or could be given, without cabinets, machinery, or any other equivocal or doubtful means. Very wide, rapid, and continuous journeyings over the world have left me no opportunity of testing this promise, but judging from the excellent manifestations I have seen in past times, and the marked deterioration of the power during the last ten years, since darkness has been the universal custom of physical mediumistic circles; when fantastic theories and untenable philosophies have almost blotted out the plain,obvious facts revealed by immortal spirits, and vituperation, recrimination, personal abuse, and personal invective, till our journals, until the lookers on may well say, "See how these Spiritualists hate one another! ,. Since, I say, these pitiable abuses on our once glorious cause have superseded the kindness, unity of feeling, and general goodwill towards each other, which once marked our re-unions-Ihave almost forgotten this promise, at any rate, I have ceased to look for its fulfilment in this generation, unless, indeed, we begin denovo, and determine that we will put aside our dissensions, and all the vain theories in which they originate, and commence to investigateafresh, resolved to have first in our own lives, and then in Spiritualism,the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Now if Emma says that she clearly saw manifestations in full light, witnesssed by others and that dark circles are not the right way to go, even as a beginning, I think it is time we started again.

The full article is here and well worth reading to see the amazing things she witnessed.
http://www.ehbritten.org/texts/primary/ehb_dark_circles_and_cabinets_1882.pdf
Jim

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:19 am

Of course never let me rest at making one simple point. I will introduce into the Seances in the light argument another heavyweight supporter of banning Dark Seances. None other than the great DD Home

[quote]Lights and shadows of spiritualism (1878). Author: Home, D. D. (Daniel Dunglas),

CHAPTER VIII.
TRICKERY AND ITS EXPOSURE.

*' The most severe blows that spiritualism has sustained have been those aimed by unprincipled and avaricious mediums, who, when the manifestations failed to come as freely as the circumstances required, practised imposition to supply the deficiency." So wrote Mrs. Hardinge, in her "History of American Spiritualism," and every year fresh evidence testifies to the truth of her assertion. Wherever the facts of spiritualism have penetrated lying imitations of those facts may be found. The producers of such imitations are of both sexes, and every age.
They may be divided into three classes. The first is made up of persons who, while really possessing medial gifts, will, when much tempted, resort to fraud. The second section consists also of mediums; but of mediums who, being utterly unprincipled, rather prefer to cheat than not, and who will, therefore, lie and deceive even when no encouragement exists to do so. It is with such that the most frequent and damaging exposures occur. They are seldom expert conjurors. The difference between the false and the genuine phenomena witnessed in their presence is too glaring to escape the notice of any person not blinded by folly and credulity. Soon, therefore, some decisive exposure crushes the faith of all but the insanely enthusiastic, and Othello, in the shape of the untrustworthy medium, finds his occupation for the present gone. It is true that he almost invariably resumes it when the storm caused by his rascality has blown over ; but meanwhile our cause has received another wound, and the broad and easy way of fraudulent mediumship has been once more demonstrated to lead to destruction.

TRICKERY AND ITS EXPOSURE. 325

In the third class I place those charlatans who, though destitute of any real claim to the title of medium, find it profitable to impose themselves as such upon credulous spiritualists, and to imitate the phenomena by methods of more or less dexterity. This species of impostor usually varies the monotony of his frauds by showing how those frauds were accomplished, and, after disgracing the spiritualists who have received him as an exponent of truth, disgraces the unbelievers who receive him as an exposer —not of spiritualism, but of his own villainy………….

For the evil has assumed gigantic proportions. Dishonesty, and its natural ally, darkness, are arrayed against honesty and light. It is with pleasure that I see signs of an organized attempt to abate the nuisance. Certain enlightened spiritualists, and a few (alas! a very few) select mediums who, in the consciousness of their honesty, can afford to encounter fearlessly investigation and the sun, are banding themselves against those "children of the night" who affect carefully-darkened rooms, and séances from which all opportunity for enquiry is excluded. To aid in this noble work of putting down imposture and destroying abuses my present volume is written.

P333
In October, 1875, I wrote as follows to my friend. Dr. Sexton :"I implore you to advocate the suppression of dark séances. Every form of phenomena ever occurring through me at the few dark séances has been repeated over and over again in the light, and I now deeply regret ever having had other than light séances. What we used to term darkness consisted in extinguishing the lights in the room, and then we used to open the curtains, or, in very many instances, have the fire lit (which, if burning, was never extinguished), when we could with perfect ease distinguishthe outline form of everyone in the room."[/quote]

Once again this rare book is a very good read and can be downloaded for personal use here.

http://nasm.org.au/pdf/DD%20Home%20Lghts%20and%20Shadows%20of%20Spiritualism.pdf

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:35 am

Of course in Cleveland Ohio in Setember 1867 the then National Association of Spiritualists in the USA received a report from the Committee of Spiritual Phenomena. This was as a result of a heated discussion at their 1866 convention where the practice of mediums operating in the dark was the subject of hot debate, with many members seeking a ban.

the 1867 report concluded------- that
"After diligent and careful investigation of the subject we are irrisistibly forced to the conclusion that darkness is not a necessary condition for physical manifestations but that it is a condition assumed and insisted upon by tricksters, having no other use than to afford opportunities for deception. We therefore reccomend that all Spiritualists and others discountenance dark circles, for under any circumstances they afford no reliable proof of Spirit existence, presence or communion, and must, even if they were genuine, be of doubtful character as to be of no practical value,"

This motion was carried by that organisation but of course failed to stop Dark Circles. After the shennanigans at Camp Chesterfield the currrent USA body, the NSAC, bans any public demonstrations of physical mediumship in their churches unless in dim red light.

If you consider that all of the three pieces i have quoted come from a time when Spirituialism did research willingly, whereas so much of our current knowledge seems almost to be more like myths and legends, I feel we really should look more seriously at the idea of bringing light into Physical Mediumship.

by Wes Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:44 am

"...darkness is not a necessary condition for physical manifestations but that it is a condition assumed and insisted upon by tricksters, having no other use than to afford opportunities for deception... "

After reading a few discussion threads at the Magic Cafe site, I was surprised and disappointed to read how apparantly easy it is to escape from cable ties, and even do a "reversed jacket" trick. So easy it seems, that doing those tricks in the dark would be too much like taking candy from a baby, as far as the escapologist fraternity is concerned.

Even more interesting was the presence of one "Amazing Rundi" in one thread who professed an interest in physical mediumship and was very keen to learn how to escape from cable ties. As none of the regulars in the thread knew who he was, he was treated with great suspicion. The thread was a couple of years old now, so if this fellow ever learnt how to escape cable ties, he would be able to put on quite a show in a dark seance by now.

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:22 am

Hmm I wonder who the Great Zardini was in that thread? I can assure you it was not our zerdini.

The point is that even amazing things can be done in the dark if you measure the paces out to the seats and place the people carefully.

Have a look at this and you will realise the potential for a fraudulent Medium in the dark, especially if he practices.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,322741,00.html

Jim

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:12 am

Oh well try this
http://www.darkdining.com/index_main.php

Then have a read at Roy Stemmans blogs about David Thompson and the comments that flow through from his article. Clearly I still refuse to believe David is guilty of any of these tricks. It is also important to accept this position because, if he is, the damage to the proof of survival is to great to consider. However I believe it is important that we look at everything, considering all of the history and evidence.

Jim

by nick pettitt Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:02 pm

...so who first came up with the idea that Physical Mediumship had to be developed in total darkness, when was this and why???? anyone know????

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:12 pm

Hi Nick,

I really want to know that answer to, why did it become suddenly so necessary to work in the dark when the earliest work was in daylight and two such revered people plus a national body opposed darkness.

I am going to try and research this in more detail, also why suddenly photography was not allowed when even magnesium flares caused no harm to the mediums.

A good question that you posed.

by Admin Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:30 pm

Off topic I have discovered that there are rather a lot of these dark restaurants, those of you in the UK may wish to try one in London http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2006/mar/01/restaurants.london

by zerdini Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:10 am

Admin wrote:Hmm I wonder who the Great Zardini was in that thread? I can assure you it was not our zerdini.

The point is that even amazing things can be done in the dark if you measure the paces out to the seats and place the people carefully.

Have a look at this and you will realise the potential for a fraudulent Medium in the dark, especially if he practices.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,322741,00.html

Jim

I know who the Great Zardini was! Wink

by Admin Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:36 am

Admin wrote:Off topic I have discovered that there are rather a lot of these dark restaurants, those of you in the UK may wish to try one in London http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2006/mar/01/restaurants.london

I suddenly realised that it might not be off topic at all. If you read about the way Dark Dining is meant to be a totally new experience because of the way that your senses react you realise that what we are getting is an altered state of consciousness occuring from the sensory deprivation you experience. Now hopefully this experience of fine dining may be pleasurable but I suspecy some may have to think hard about how a one to two hour experience like that may affect them. Now we know modern interrogation techniques frequently involve darkness and loud music because of teh impacts upon the mind.

In a dark seance we create the setting to also cause sensory deprivation and an altered state of consciousness through the imposed blackout and loud music. Psychological studies show that in this altered state our mind is more likely to fill in any blanks, hallucinate and have trouble concentrating. I suppose I believe this is yet another good reason to introduce the light.

I note that Jack Hunter has commented upon this in realtion to his research at the Bristol Spirit Lodge http://www.box.net/shared/eer8ohbqp2 . He also has some interesting views about fraud http://www.box.net/shared/np824ekjeh which I am not sure I can go along with. This latter may well be best read in conjunction with his report upon a Warren Caylor "seance" http://www.box.net/shared/momrenni64 .Now until Warren undertakes a proper test seance in stictly controlled conditions I will not accept that things have changed with his work. Sadly despite all the issues the Physical Mediumship community seem to have rehabilitated him (albeit not many of the major people in the UK like Jenny's Sanctuary, Frank Brown and the Zerdin Phenomenal).

I also feel that what Jack says and the Caylor issue just goes on to prove teh need for physical mediumship in the light.

by nick pettitt Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:20 am

Admin wrote:
Admin wrote:Off topic I have discovered that there are rather a lot of these dark restaurants, those of you in the UK may wish to try one in London http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2006/mar/01/restaurants.london

I suddenly realised that it might not be off topic at all. If you read about the way Dark Dining is meant to be a totally new experience because of the way that your senses react you realise that what we are getting is an altered state of consciousness occuring from the sensory deprivation you experience. Now hopefully this experience of fine dining may be pleasurable but I suspecy some may have to think hard about how a one to two hour experience like that may affect them. Now we know modern interrogation techniques frequently involve darkness and loud music because of teh impacts upon the mind.

In a dark seance we create the setting to also cause sensory deprivation and an altered state of consciousness through the imposed blackout and loud music. Psychological studies show that in this altered state our mind is more likely to fill in any blanks, hallucinate and have trouble concentrating. I suppose I believe this is yet another good reason to introduce the light.

I note that Jack Hunter has commented upon this in realtion to his research at the Bristol Spirit Lodge http://www.box.net/shared/eer8ohbqp2 . He also has some interesting views about fraud http://www.box.net/shared/np824ekjeh which I am not sure I can go along with. This latter may well be best read in conjunction with his report upon a Warren Caylor "seance" http://www.box.net/shared/momrenni64 .Now until Warren undertakes a proper test seance in stictly controlled conditions I will not accept that things have changed with his work. Sadly despite all the issues the Physical Mediumship community seem to have rehabilitated him (albeit not many of the major people in the UK like Jenny's Sanctuary, Frank Brown and the Zerdin Phenomenal).

I also feel that what Jack says and the Caylor issue just goes on to prove teh need for physical mediumship in the light.

interesting that you say sitting in the dark causes sensory deprivation, I find that by eliminating the sense of sight it actually heightens the remaining senses, I even find luminous tabs on the trumpet a distraction when sitting in the dark and prefer no luminousity at all. Then when things like blobs, lights, the room getting darker/lighter, etc are seen and confirmed by the other sitters it's more likely to be something physical happening, also I find breezes and touches are more apparent in the dark. The only time I experience sensory deprivation or have trouble concentrating is when a red light is used to show different faces appearing over the medium's face. I do see facial changes but am convinced it's my eyes playing tricks...

by mac Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:55 am

nick pettitt wrote:
Admin wrote:
Admin wrote:Off topic I have discovered that there are rather a lot of these dark restaurants, those of you in the UK may wish to try one in London http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2006/mar/01/restaurants.london

I suddenly realised that it might not be off topic at all. If you read about the way Dark Dining is meant to be a totally new experience because of the way that your senses react you realise that what we are getting is an altered state of consciousness occuring from the sensory deprivation you experience. Now hopefully this experience of fine dining may be pleasurable but I suspecy some may have to think hard about how a one to two hour experience like that may affect them. Now we know modern interrogation techniques frequently involve darkness and loud music because of teh impacts upon the mind.

In a dark seance we create the setting to also cause sensory deprivation and an altered state of consciousness through the imposed blackout and loud music. Psychological studies show that in this altered state our mind is more likely to fill in any blanks, hallucinate and have trouble concentrating. I suppose I believe this is yet another good reason to introduce the light.

I note that Jack Hunter has commented upon this in realtion to his research at the Bristol Spirit Lodge http://www.box.net/shared/eer8ohbqp2 . He also has some interesting views about fraud http://www.box.net/shared/np824ekjeh which I am not sure I can go along with. This latter may well be best read in conjunction with his report upon a Warren Caylor "seance" http://www.box.net/shared/momrenni64 .Now until Warren undertakes a proper test seance in stictly controlled conditions I will not accept that things have changed with his work. Sadly despite all the issues the Physical Mediumship community seem to have rehabilitated him (albeit not many of the major people in the UK like Jenny's Sanctuary, Frank Brown and the Zerdin Phenomenal).

I also feel that what Jack says and the Caylor issue just goes on to prove teh need for physical mediumship in the light.

interesting that you say sitting in the dark causes sensory deprivation, The text actually says "....through the imposed blackout and loud music. I find many sources of noise highly distracting and discomforting and if I were exposed to it for a prolonged period I'd expect to be unable to function reliably. " I find that by eliminating the sense of sight it actually heightens the remaining senses, I even find luminous tabs on the trumpet a distraction when sitting in the dark and prefer no luminousity at all. Then when things like blobs, lights, the room getting darker/lighter, etc are seen and confirmed by the other sitters it's more likely to be something physical happening, also I find breezes and touches are more apparent in the dark. The only time I experience sensory deprivation or have trouble concentrating is when a red light is used to show different faces appearing over the medium's face. I do see facial changes but am convinced it's my eyes playing tricks... My view is that we should always be sceptical of our sensors, especially when they're used in extreme and/or unfamiliar conditions. Put bluntly, be wary of what you think you see, hear, feel etc in such circumstances......

by seraphina Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:02 pm

To those who mentioned Mr Chay Backshall I knew this gentleman and his wife through workshops arranged in a church . CHay was the most gentle and humerous person I have ever had the pleasure to meet. He mentioned nothing about his ability and therefore coluld not be said to grandstand like a lot of those of the similat ilk. I attended a seance with hin as medium anfd it was excellent. This was in packed room of over forty people so nothing untoward could occured. That incident at Stansted college was done illegally the man concerned had already been told he could not film ort photograph but He still went ahead. He was admonishred by the officials in stansted and it was a n article in PN. Mr backshall was reluctant to go the college but was eventually persuaded by Mr G Edwards to go ,that is the only involvement tha he had to do with it. Mr backshall passed away shortly afterwards from thhe shock ultimatly from the way he was pilloroed by the snu authorities (College) I find it abborent that people who didnot know him are discussing this abysmal incident Many medium backed Mr backshall and still do. He did not fall off the earth He went Spirit

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