Physical mediumship in dark or light ???

seraphina wrote:To those who mentioned Mr Chay Backshall I knew this gentleman and his wife through workshops arranged in a church . CHay was the most gentle and humerous person I have ever had the pleasure to meet. He mentioned nothing about his ability and therefore coluld not be said to grandstand like a lot of those of the similat ilk. I attended a seance with hin as medium anfd it was excellent. This was in packed room of over forty people so nothing untoward could occured. That incident at Stansted college was done illegally the man concerned had already been told he could not film ort photograph but He still went ahead. He was admonishred by the officials in stansted and it was a n article in PN. Mr backshall was reluctant to go the college but was eventually persuaded by Mr G Edwards to go ,that is the only involvement tha he had to do with it. Mr backshall passed away shortly afterwards from thhe shock ultimatly from the way he was pilloroed by the snu authorities (College) I find it abborent that people who didnot know him are discussing this abysmal incident Many medium backed Mr backshall and still do. He did not fall off the earth He went Spirit

Do you support fraudulent mediumship?

I was present at that seance so I know exactly what happened. It was because of previous experience with him that doubts arose. Those doubts were proved to be correct.

Do you support fraudulent mediumship zerdini. I believe you sat with Colin Fry.

I am sorry to say this but once again we see the problem, the early seances were almost always in sufficient light to see what happened. The trouble is the memory and understanding of seances seems to cease when people go back to 1920, even then they tend to pass by all the infra red photographic evidence produced up to 1950 saying that this method of verification has become dangerous to the mediums. In honesty there is plenty of evidence countering that view, as Eric Hatton says in his memoirs maybe the problem is the mind of the medium not Spirit.

The early history illustrates quite clearly just how much fraud there was in Dark Seances. This was a major issue and sadly the problems arising with dark seances remain with us. Whenever someone is apparently exposed it brings defenders who produce apparently valid supporting evidence and detractors quoting the actual events directly to hand.

Really its time to remember Emma Hardinge Brittens words that I have already quoted on this thread. Let Physical mediumship return to dimly lit rooms at the very least.

Jim

There was a hidden camera planted which clearly showed Chay getting out of his chair.

A top snu medium was present, who was running his hand over the table and his head, saying there's a hand, it's touching me, it's touching me. The video showed it was a human hand.

Maureen Harrison wrote:Do you support fraudulent mediumship zerdini. I believe you sat with Colin Fry.

No, I do not support fraudulent mediumship. I have known Colin Fry for over twenty years and am probably more au fait with his mediumship than anyone on this forum or elsewhere.

Azur wrote:There was a hidden camera planted which clearly showed Chay getting out of his chair.

A top snu medium was present, who was running his hand over the table and his head, saying there's a hand, it's touching me, it's touching me. The video showed it was a human hand.

I watched the video, Azur, on the monitor which was set up in the bar. There is no doubt it was Backshall.

No I do not support fraudulent Mediumship You have not said about the illegal use of camerlege. so from what you have hinted about havig doubts where you part of this exposure? sounds like it. we wer told that it had been a one off vidsit to the college he had never done anything outside his home circle apart from the seance I mentioned. but does this mean that all physical mediums are fraudulent it would seem so in your estimation

Hi Seraphina,

What is being said here is that all too often history records fraud in Dark Seances. History also shows that significant senior figures like DD Home and Emma Hardinge Britten were violently opposed to Dark Seances. They also felt that their own personal experiences with seances in bright light or in dim light, was so extensive that they knew darkness was unnecessary.

The discussions on here show that there are significant problems with darkness. Personally I have received good comments about Chay as well as this report. However, on this occasion the infra red showed that he was moving around the seance. Now if we are to believe the dark seance enthusiasts, who categorically believe that infra red is dangerous, even harmful to the medium, then he should have suffered injury but did not.

In this case we either have a piece of fraud, or we have a Spirit entrancing Chay to move him round the room. Given the latter is the standard excuse in situations like this when there is an exposure, it has to follow that infra red is, as it was in the past, harmless to the Medium.

Sadly every expose reflects adversely upon Physical Mediumship. Let us be clear on this, I know the problems with Warren Caylor where it was reported the blackout failure caused his activities to become known (remember this was also printed in the Independent Newspaper). I have credible reports indicating that it may well be nothing has changed in regard to his work.

Another Medium, Anders Akeson admitted his fraud.

At this stage the sceptics are being given a whole series of open goals by the practioners. Look around the web you will also find questions about the Felix Group plus the controversy about David Thompson.

In one of the posts the comments are made by someone who organised seances with both of those parties (to save you time you can find it posted here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74282104 ,the posters name is notallfrauds and he was clearly a great believer in physical mediums, with his pseudonym conveying this, plus the seances he has run).

What the real state of affairs is we may never know, with opinions divided and splitting the supporters of true mediumship. This is in reality one of the points of this particular thread, not to make comments about individual Mediums, or argue about who was, is, or not, fraudulent, or genuine, it is to consider the validity of dark seances as the necessary condition of physical mediumship.

To do this we need to look back at the real greats of the past then realise that it is, quite possibly, only the work of those who could be seen in dim or bright light that give us a legacy to believe in.

Oh and those who allowed themselves to be photographed, given how dangerous even passive infra red or thermography is thought to be by the physical mediumship adherents, how come our early Mediums were photographed by a flash using Magnesium Flares with no harm to them. That was the technology in Crookes day with Florence Cook. Oh yes subsequently Florence was clearly caught in fraud in a dark seance. Admittedly by that stage her health had failed and she should probably have stopped working.

So I believe its time we re-considered what is acceptable in physical mediumship to impose modern day controls that remove the possibility of fraud, either consciously or unconciously by either the medium or his controlling Spirit. Light is a vital part of that and one which the USA churches aligned with the NSAC demand for seances held in their premises.

so many replays - intresting. thanks

hiorta wrote:Paul McIlhoney of flower bud fame?

Ah, now there's a blast from the past. I recall sitting in one of his circles at a private home (Manchester if I recall correctly), shortly before his being 'outed'.
It has always troubled me, as on the occasion I sat with him, I was the person who was asked to search him. This I dutifully did in the hall (he stripped to his underpants). I remember him showing me his tape recorder - the old style with buttons on the top that you pressed down - oh, and yes.... The terms of black tape wrapped around it and covering the battery compartment.

Despite him producing rose petals etc in the blackedout room, I recall the journey home with my Father and both of us feeling unconvinced and uncomfortable with what we had witnessed.

(Apologies for mistakes - using my mobile phone)

_Leslie_ wrote:

hiorta wrote:Paul McIlhoney of flower bud fame?

Ah, now there's a blast from the past. I recall sitting in one of his circles at a private home (Manchester if I recall correctly), shortly before his being 'outed'.
It has always troubled me, as on the occasion I sat with him, I was the person who was asked to search him. This I dutifully did in the hall (he stripped to his underpants). I remember him showing me his tape recorder - the old style with buttons on the top that you pressed down - oh, and yes.... The terms of black tape wrapped around it and covering the battery compartment.

Despite him producing rose petals etc in the blackedout room, I recall the journey home with my Father and both of us feeling unconvinced and uncomfortable with what we had witnessed.

(Apologies for mistakes - using my mobile phone)

Paul McElhoney was 'outed' by Albert Best who remarked to me that he called him Paul McElphoney! lol

zerdini wrote:

Paul McElhoney was 'outed' by Albert Best who remarked to me that he called him Paul McElphoney! lol

Now that's funny lol

Paul McElhoney was from Liverpool I think. I remember reading his exposure in the News of the World back in the 80's. I remember there was one seance reported in Psychic News in which carnations began to fall from his mouth. I wonder if he's still in operation today.

Admin wrote:

We are constantly reminded of the risk to our Physical mediums from teh back flow of ectoplam to the point where the controls to protect the Medium are such that they risk invalidating any evidence obtained in the Seance. Th classic example is the application form for the seance giving plenty of information about the attendees who are then seated in the seance by the Medium.

Given the length of time such seances have gone on and the limited, substantianable evidence we have gathered for all that expenditure of time the risks seem hardly worth the benefit. On top of that the steady stream of fraudulent activity has probably done more harm tham those benefits.

The Spiritualist Movement banned dark seances as far back as 1867

So I am very much against the Dark, I believe we should return to turning on a dim red or blue light and saying to our Guides this is non negotiable. That by the way are the standard rules for physical demonstrations within the National Spiritualist Alliance of Churches in the USA.

if we get nothing are we any worse off than we are now wher what we get cannot be validated. If you must work in the dark use thermographic cameras to track the movements in the room

Jim

Interesting: I hadn't known that the NSAC "banned" dark seances.

Personally, I think that no matter what you do, there's always going to be someone clever enough to commit fraud. Combine that with the potential to make money, and you're going to have fraudulent seances. Then again, I'm against this whole idea of "50 marching spooks tonight, count 'em yourself!" style of mediumship, when it's put on as a show for the general public.

Jim

Personally, I think that no matter what you do, there's always going to be someone clever enough to commit fraud. Combine that with the potential to make money, and you're going to have fraudulent seances.

Timothy 6:10:

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

Yup Katy some 45 quid $130-$150 a ticket here, 180 swiss francs US $110 all same medium all in black out

I know the photo it's a nice one of Ira I agree, There is no independent confirmation that he confessed to Houdini. Conan Doyle was a very close friend of Ira's and stated "I was an intimate friend of Ira Erastus Davenport. I can make the positive assertion that the Davenport Brothers never were exposed…. I know more about the Davenports than anyone living." From Doyle's book, ''The Edge of the Unknown''

KatyKing wrote:The usual suspects attending and I grabbed this from one of their websites. “Where Science and Spirit meet” week was held at The Arthur Findlay College, Stansted Hall, Essex by Friends of Stansted Hall from Friday 20th January 2012 to Friday 27th January 2012....
During the week two séances were conducted with the highlights being on the Tuesday night séance all participants were able to witness ectoplasm in good red light, and on the Thursday night séance past president in spirit Gordon Higginson was able to talk to friends and colleagues gathered in the séance room who identified the communicators voice as being that of Gordon Higginson".
Hope Roy Stemman was there too, he's a fair judge.

That quote was from the unbiased Silver Cord Website!!!

KatyKing wrote:An evening with Gordon Higginson too!
Laissez les bonnes temps roullez.
Lovely chap knew everyone who was a regular and read well to those he knew but any strangers in got nowt . Unless one conflated that twinkly sub arch camp with funny or interesting then terminally dull and very dated to us (then) young uns. SNU have yet to move on from those days.

The correct spelling of the phrase is "Laissez les bons temps rouler"
meaning “Let the good times roll”

It's Louisiana Cajun Creole and the slogan for Mardi Gras.

For example, in 2011 New Orleans Mayor Mitchell J. Landrieu wrote:
... "While the excitement of New Orleans with its music, food and culture is year-round, we invite everyone to experience Mardi Gras at least once in their lifetime. Make your plans now to be a part of this great tradition and see firsthand why we say "Laissez les bon temps rouler!" ...

As for your remarks about Gordon Higginson they should be treated with contempt.

Equally David Thompson's attempts at reproducing the voice of Gordon Higginson is distasteful as tape recordings illustrate.

Apologies if I have caused you offence z. It was unintended but nonetheless unforgiveable. I've the highest regard for some who revere GH who was a decent sort but,as we all are, very much of his time. The movement (taking a GH analogy as given) suffered then and suffers now from a nostalgic yearning for that which we've never truly possessed ~ cultural relevance beyond the walls of our own churches. That's a shame as society could do with more optimism about the future.

KatyKing wrote:Apologies if I have caused you offence z. It was unintended but nonetheless unforgiveable. I've the highest regard for some who revere GH who was a decent sort but,as we all are, very much of his time. The movement (taking a GH analogy as given) suffered then and suffers now from a nostalgic yearning for that which we've never truly possessed ~ cultural relevance beyond the walls of our own churches. That's a shame as society could do with more optimism about the future.

Apology accepted KK.

I should add that I am not a member of any church nor of the SNU, Greater World etc.

I do, however, like the teachings of Silver Birch probably because I was invited to sit in the Hannen Swaffer Home Circle and was able to question SB face-to-face, so to speak.

You are a gent. Did you know Jack Corbett [Leiester]z ?

KatyKing wrote:You are a gent. Did you know Jack Corbett [Leiester]z ?

Not personally, KK, only of him.

They do on Mardi Gras ("Fat Tuesday") Day itself, which is the day before Ash Wednesday (Shrovetide), which latter is the beginning of Lent. Just about everything is closed on Mardi Gras Day. I was an employee of the US government here for 18 Mardi Gras Days, and we were always granted adminiswtrative leave for the day.

It's a lot of fun, but the parades become progressively bigger, and traffic more and more disrupted, as the 12 days roll on.

Mardi Gras Day in New Orleans? Think of Christmas, New Year's, and any six other holidays, all rolled into one. Double it. That's Mardi Gras Day in New Orleans!

We have the biggest Mardi Gras celebration in the world, with the exception of Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.

It's all rooted in an old Catholic custom: since you give up things for Lent, the tradition is that on the day before Lent, you do more of whatever it is you're giving up: drink more beer, eat more chocolate, smoke more cigars, etc.

The French like to do things in a big way, so they expanded this into 12 days of feasting and celebrating before the fast.


Jim

I understand What some of you are saying. I really do. and i know you sense the but... so i will give it you,,,more a what if really. ,,,, What if the medium is a developing direct voice medium??