Physical mediumship in dark or light ???

physical mediumship should it be developed in the dark or light?

what is youre opinjun and experience? and why?
Love Jane

Very interesting one Jane. i feel we have become atuned to the steady repetition, that you cannot achieve Physical mediumship in the light. the Mediums train that way and then it is left up to their guides to say when light maybe introduced or infra red used.

We are constantly reminded of the risk to our Physical mediums from teh back flow of ectoplam to the point where the controls to protect the Medium are such that they risk invalidating any evidence obtained in the Seance. Th classic example is the application form for the seance giving plenty of information about the attendees who are then seated in the seance by the Medium.

Given the length of time such seances have gone on and the limited, substantianable evidence we have gathered for all that expenditure of time the risks seem hardly worth the benefit. On top of that the steady stream of fraudulent activity has probably done more harm tham those benefits.

Why then go ahead with the risk, well money is one reason some of the current Physical mediums can make very good money from it. Proof, well what evidence appears to be coming out of the majority of seance rooms could be better obtained from good Mental mediumship.

The Spiritualist Movement banned dark seances as far back as 1867 when the Committee selected to investigate Dark Seances reported upon their findings to the 1867 Annual National Convention of Spiritualist in Cleveland Ohio. DD Home was extremely Critical of them in his book teh Light and Shadows of Spiritualism. Then came many proven frauds including of course William Roy, Lamar Keene and the shocking events at Camp Chesterfield all reported upon in this forum.

So I am very much against the Dark, I believe we should return to turning on a dim red or blue light and saying to our Guides this is non negotiable. That by the way are the standard rules for physical demonstrations within the National Spiritualist Alliance of Churches in the USA.

if we get nothing are we any worse off than we are now wher what we get cannot be validated. If you must work in the dark use thermographic cameras to track the movements in the room as minimum these give out less dangerous energies than a human body. I am certain there are other things that could be done which are non intrusive, electric pressure pads under a plate on the floor upon which the mediums sit, french chalk on teh floor. even just the minimum light needed for the best thermographic Cameras to record vision, effectively darkness to the human eye. We could then do away with cable ties and ropes to help the medium relax more.

Jim

Thanks Jim
intresting view you have and the darknes is a problem and I do belive in the developing medium it self, not enoff paitent and dedikattion that ´s what wee see now days - they goo oute before they have developt proper.

in the old dayce many satt infront the fier ore the gaslamp - and that dident seem so destroying for the medium ore the energis, mybee that is the light to go back to!

it seems to bee electric lithboulce that is the problem.

what i have learnt is that you shuld sitt in darkconditions untill spirit saying its okay whit light - so I´m pusseld!

If we now start whit light in the seans rums it might happen that physical mediumship is daying oute ore bloming up.

soo i doo hope we have cirkels that are developing in both ways - so the fututre mediums can now!.

but this monymaking in physical mediumship isent the right way to goo - and al this copetiuns between cirkels coming oute whit picktures and films - fore good sake it thasent help physicalmediumship to go oute on youtube putting oute films and pickturs that are ??? marks on.

hope more ho have experiens whil answer i founde it intresting

love Jane

What about Ethel Post Parrish and Silver Belle, Ethel demonstrated her mediumship at Camp Chesterfield and also her camp Camp Silver Belle. There are a set of famous photos taken of Silver Belle. No fraud was ever found on Ethel, was she genuine.

Admin wrote:Very interesting one Jane. i feel we have become atuned to the steady repetition, that you cannot achieve Physical mediumship in the light. the Mediums train that way and then it is left up to their guides to say when light maybe introduced or infra red used.

We are constantly reminded of the risk to our Physical mediums from teh back flow of ectoplam to the point where the controls to protect the Medium are such that they risk invalidating any evidence obtained in the Seance. Th classic example is the application form for the seance giving plenty of information about the attendees who are then seated in the seance by the Medium.

Given the length of time such seances have gone on and the limited, substantianable evidence we have gathered for all that expenditure of time the risks seem hardly worth the benefit. On top of that the steady stream of fraudulent activity has probably done more harm tham those benefits.

Why then go ahead with the risk, well money is one reason some of the current Physical mediums can make very good money from it. Proof, well what evidence appears to be coming out of the majority of seance rooms could be better obtained from good Mental mediumship.

The Spiritualist Movement banned dark seances as far back as 1867 when the Committee selected to investigate Dark Seances reported upon their findings to the 1867 Annual National Convention of Spiritualist in Cleveland Ohio. DD Home was extremely Critical of them in his book teh Light and Shadows of Spiritualism. Then came many proven frauds including of course William Roy, Lamar Keene and the shocking events at Camp Chesterfield all reported upon in this forum.

So I am very much against the Dark, I believe we should return to turning on a dim red or blue light and saying to our Guides this is non negotiable. That by the way are the standard rules for physical demonstrations within the National Spiritualist Alliance of Churches in the USA.

if we get nothing are we any worse off than we are now wher what we get cannot be validated. If you must work in the dark use thermographic cameras to track the movements in the room as minimum these give out less dangerous energies than a human body. I am certain there are other things that could be done which are non intrusive, electric pressure pads under a plate on the floor upon which the mediums sit, french chalk on teh floor. even just the minimum light needed for the best thermographic Cameras to record vision, effectively darkness to the human eye. We could then do away with cable ties and ropes to help the medium relax more.

Jim

If a public seance is advertised as a materialization seance then it should be conducted in the light as there is little point having materializations unless you can see 'em but an independent voice or trumpet seance would be better done in the dark as additional evidence is obtained when a trumpet manages to find the ear of the person the message is intended for in the pitch black.
The point you make about an application form for the seance giving plenty of information about the attendees who are then seated in the seance by the Medium is a good one and I for one would not attend a public seance where that was the case. It's a bit like having an accomplice who goes through all the bags and coats left outside by the sitters for any snippets of information in diaries or note books about names, birthdays, anniversaries etc then passing the info to the medium.
Your comment "I believe we should return to turning on a dim red or blue light and saying to our Guides this is non negotiable." is a bit harsh but as a compromise and if the developing circle was sitting for materialization then how about starting off in the dark but requesting at the start that light be introduced after a year of weekly sessions has elapsed, if the controls then said this was not possible the circle could better use it's energies to develop independent voice...

Very good point Blue Lotus, indeed Ethel was never found to be a cheat, sadly the photographs taken are of the type that are open to the film played onto the smoke from dry ice complaine. However the reports of her seances are much clearer and I am aware Maurice Barbanell, one of the greatest debunkers of false Mediumship was totally supportive of her. On the basis of the witness statements on the reports and Barbanell I accept her work as genuine.
I suppose the only nagging concern is her family relationship with the medium who was exposed in the Camp Chesterfield debacle and teh way that event was played out with people entering the cabinet through a door behind it.
Nick I agree with you, OK start in teh dark but let your guides know you expect to introduce light early on. In a group working on developing and improving platform Mediumship we had some very interesting phenomena in dim normal light.
Thanks very good thoughts in something which should be an important debate.

Jim

nick pettitt wrote:

Admin wrote:Very interesting one Jane. i feel we have become atuned to the steady repetition, that you cannot achieve Physical mediumship in the light. the Mediums train that way and then it is left up to their guides to say when light maybe introduced or infra red used.

We are constantly reminded of the risk to our Physical mediums from teh back flow of ectoplam to the point where the controls to protect the Medium are such that they risk invalidating any evidence obtained in the Seance. Th classic example is the application form for the seance giving plenty of information about the attendees who are then seated in the seance by the Medium.

Given the length of time such seances have gone on and the limited, substantianable evidence we have gathered for all that expenditure of time the risks seem hardly worth the benefit. On top of that the steady stream of fraudulent activity has probably done more harm tham those benefits.

Why then go ahead with the risk, well money is one reason some of the current Physical mediums can make very good money from it. Proof, well what evidence appears to be coming out of the majority of seance rooms could be better obtained from good Mental mediumship.

The Spiritualist Movement banned dark seances as far back as 1867 when the Committee selected to investigate Dark Seances reported upon their findings to the 1867 Annual National Convention of Spiritualist in Cleveland Ohio. DD Home was extremely Critical of them in his book teh Light and Shadows of Spiritualism. Then came many proven frauds including of course William Roy, Lamar Keene and the shocking events at Camp Chesterfield all reported upon in this forum.

So I am very much against the Dark, I believe we should return to turning on a dim red or blue light and saying to our Guides this is non negotiable. That by the way are the standard rules for physical demonstrations within the National Spiritualist Alliance of Churches in the USA.

if we get nothing are we any worse off than we are now wher what we get cannot be validated. If you must work in the dark use thermographic cameras to track the movements in the room as minimum these give out less dangerous energies than a human body. I am certain there are other things that could be done which are non intrusive, electric pressure pads under a plate on the floor upon which the mediums sit, french chalk on teh floor. even just the minimum light needed for the best thermographic Cameras to record vision, effectively darkness to the human eye. We could then do away with cable ties and ropes to help the medium relax more.

Jim

If a public seance is advertised as a materialization seance then it should be conducted in the light as there is little point having materializations unless you can see 'em but an independent voice or trumpet seance would be better done in the dark as additional evidence is obtained when a trumpet manages to find the ear of the person the message is intended for in the pitch black.
The point you make about an application form for the seance giving plenty of information about the attendees who are then seated in the seance by the Medium is a good one and I for one would not attend a public seance where that was the case. It's a bit like having an accomplice who goes through all the bags and coats left outside by the sitters for any snippets of information in diaries or note books about names, birthdays, anniversaries etc then passing the info to the medium.
Your comment "I believe we should return to turning on a dim red or blue light and saying to our Guides this is non negotiable." is a bit harsh but as a compromise and if the developing circle was sitting for materialization then how about starting off in the dark but requesting at the start that light be introduced after a year of weekly sessions has elapsed, if the controls then said this was not possible the circle could better use it's energies to develop independent voice...

thanks - intresting

Admin wrote:Very good point Blue Lotus, indeed Ethel was never found to be a cheat, sadly the photographs taken are of the type that are open to the film played onto the smoke from dry ice complaine. However the reports of her seances are much clearer and I am aware Maurice Barbanell, one of the greatest debunkers of false Mediumship was totally supportive of her. On the basis of the witness statements on the reports and Barbanell I accept her work as genuine.
I suppose the only nagging concern is her family relationship with the medium who was exposed in the Camp Chesterfield debacle and teh way that event was played out with people entering the cabinet through a door behind it.
Nick I agree with you, OK start in teh dark but let your guides know you expect to introduce light early on. In a group working on developing and improving platform Mediumship we had some very interesting phenomena in dim normal light.
Thanks very good thoughts in something which should be an important debate.

Jim

Intresting - it seems to be ? marks aouraund al phusical mediums, sad

I have hade intresting phenomena aswell in normal ore littel bit dimd light when doinng trance . like trancefiguration:-)

//Jane

Jane Lyzell wrote:

Admin wrote:Very good point Blue Lotus, indeed Ethel was never found to be a cheat, sadly the photographs taken are of the type that are open to the film played onto the smoke from dry ice complaine. However the reports of her seances are much clearer and I am aware Maurice Barbanell, one of the greatest debunkers of false Mediumship was totally supportive of her. On the basis of the witness statements on the reports and Barbanell I accept her work as genuine.
I suppose the only nagging concern is her family relationship with the medium who was exposed in the Camp Chesterfield debacle and teh way that event was played out with people entering the cabinet through a door behind it.
Nick I agree with you, OK start in teh dark but let your guides know you expect to introduce light early on. In a group working on developing and improving platform Mediumship we had some very interesting phenomena in dim normal light.
Thanks very good thoughts in something which should be an important debate.

Jim

Intresting - it seems to be ? marks aouraund al phusical mediums, sad

I have hade intresting phenomena aswell in normal ore littel bit dimd light when doinng trance . like trancefiguration:-)

//Jane

What physical mediums do is far beyond most people's boggle threshold so for them there will always be ? marks. Add to that the numerous accusations of fraud found everywhere it's surprising anyone new to the subject bothers to investigate it at all.
We can all read about the brilliant physical mediums of the past and listen to those lucky enough to have experienced full form materializations in the light but we all need to have our own personal experience and sadly as far as I know no one is publicly demonstrating it at the moment.
Instead of travelling miles and spending money attending so called materialization seances only to come away disappointed it would be far more productive to find a few like minded friends and set up your own development group. You're not gonna get full form materializations after the first week (if you do we'll all be round for a look) but if you sit with the right intentions you'll eventually get something, even if it's just a small movement of the trumpet and if you trust the friends you're sitting with that will be your first bit of evidence that physical phemomina is happening and the buzz that gives you will move the circle on to greater things..
As Colin Fry's spirit friend Charlie once said "just give us the conditions and we will come....."

totaly agree whit that nick

Good idea Nick. What's the minimum number would you say?

Totally agree with you Nick

obiwan wrote:Good idea Nick. What's the minimum number would you say?

how many friends have you got obiwan? The NAS Guide suggests five as a minimum but I don't think the number matters, I've sat in a circle of three and had good results, the most important factor is that you find the right people, those with whom you are totally at ease to create the harmonious conditions required.

Why doesn't the Spiritualists' National Union/Arthur Findlay College ban dark circles. I remember some years ago there was fraud uncovered at the Arthur Findlay College, with some physical medium can't remember his name think he was from Liverpool area, but medium Glynn edward was involved as well, I remember it was a big shock Judith seaman was president at the time and it was covered up. It's years since I have went to the college now but it would make you think.

Paul McIlhoney of flower bud fame?

hiorta wrote:Paul McIlhoney of flower bud fame?

I don't think it was him, I remember that, Paul McIlhoney had the flowers hidden in the back of his stereo. I think that was at the SAGB, there was another one at the Arthur Findlay college a few years ago.

Blue Lotus wrote:

hiorta wrote:Paul McIlhoney of flower bud fame?

I don't think it was him, I remember that, Paul McIlhoney had the flowers hidden in the back of his stereo. I think that was at the SAGB, there was another one at the Arthur Findlay college a few years ago.

Quite a number of years ago there was a Chay Backshall as I recall.

Mike Scott (an astrophysicist) set up an infra-red camera in the radiator in the Blue Room at Stansted where a physical seance was taking place.

A few of us sat in the bar and watched it on a monitor. The medium was caught on camera getting out of his seat a number of times.

He disappeared off the scene pretty quickly after that exposure.

zerdini wrote:

Blue Lotus wrote:

hiorta wrote:Paul McIlhoney of flower bud fame?

I don't think it was him, I remember that, Paul McIlhoney had the flowers hidden in the back of his stereo. I think that was at the SAGB, there was another one at the Arthur Findlay college a few years ago.

Quite a number of years ago there was a Chay Backshall as I recall.

Mike Scott (an astrophysicist) set up an infra-red camera in the radiator in the Blue Room at Stansted where a physical seance was taking place.

A few of us sat in the bar and watched it on a monitor. The medium was caught on camera getting out of his seat a number of times.

He disappeared off the scene pretty quickly after that exposure.

Thats him, Chay Backshall, couldn't remember the name. He fairly vanished alright.

Just seen recently that he is teaching development workshops on physical mediumship.

Those who can, do - those who can't, teach!

zerdini wrote:Those who can, do - those who can't, teach!

You think so! But Gordon Higginson use to run and teach Physical Phenomena week at stansted I attended myself, also his Torch of Awareness course. He was a physical medium and he would teach

I think the point is perhaps that those who can't only teach.

Blue Lotus wrote:

zerdini wrote:Those who can, do - those who can't, teach!

You think so! But Gordon Higginson use to run and teach Physical Phenomena week at stansted I attended myself, also his Torch of Awareness course. He was a physical medium and he would teach

I know as I attended all his physical phenomena weeks!

obiwan wrote:I think the point is perhaps that those who can't only teach.

Absolutely, Obiwan.

zerdini wrote:

Blue Lotus wrote:

zerdini wrote:Those who can, do - those who can't, teach!

You think so! But Gordon Higginson use to run and teach Physical Phenomena week at stansted I attended myself, also his Torch of Awareness course. He was a physical medium and he would teach

I know as I attended all his physical phenomena weeks!

Me too, and my mum returned through his mediumship and embraced me. Gordon was great, I do miss him. The last of a dying breed am afraid. May he continue his great work from the other side of life.