Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

However, an NDA is usually in return for something, but maybe the tutors will not be asking for anything other than whatever is needed for them to work in harmony at the AFC.  If they win that we will see the result and the details of the complaint can remain bound by an NDA for ever….it will not matter any more.

Yes maybe that's all the tutors might be asking for but even if they win their complaint I really do wonder if they would now - after several months as things stand - want to return to an organisation and be alongside individuals they have fallen out with so disastrously.  And would they even be allowed to return to their previous roles even if they had won their case, one might also wonder.

  And my view is that the details of what's happened might actually still matter to those involved.

I agree with you. Yes ,those things will matter to those involved but not to the rest of us. We may be curious but we are on this forum to follow the progress of the tutor’s complaint.

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:As an addendum to my last post, I think it’s important to remember that an NDA about their own complaint does not necessarily prohibit them from giving an opinion about other matters. This, presumably, is why Libby felt she was able to talk about the BCC “sacking” and all that preceded it. Nothing to do with their original complaint.

Yep I agree - that issue is outside of the tutors' dispute but the 'BCC' event might become the subject of a complaint etc.

Would that then mean her signing an NDA one might wonder?

Probably it would…..but I think she might not bother

I hope they will be vindicated for making this complaint and I hope that they will be able to share more details in due course, but only if that is their wish.

Just as with the near-death-experience involving Psychic News several years ago, all the events discussed and debated at length in this conversation will eventually become history.  Though perhaps not forgotten they will be less important for most of us not directly involved - isn't that already the situation?   The ones who ARE involved though may well be left with long-lasting hurt and emotional scars.  

It's so sad for so many....

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

However, an NDA is usually in return for something, but maybe the tutors will not be asking for anything other than whatever is needed for them to work in harmony at the AFC.  If they win that we will see the result and the details of the complaint can remain bound by an NDA for ever….it will not matter any more.

Yes maybe that's all the tutors might be asking for but even if they win their complaint I really do wonder if they would now - after several months as things stand - want to return to an organisation and be alongside individuals they have fallen out with so disastrously.  And would they even be allowed to return to their previous roles even if they had won their case, one might also wonder.
And my view is that the details of what's happened might actually still matter to those involved.

PJ was removed from the AFC committee, when the NEC of the time found out he was deliberately blocking potential tutors that he did not like or want there. He picked tutors to assess potential that he knew would fail them for him, so that they didn't get to work there. But he picked on the wrong person, who found out bout his devious ways, fought it and won.

Admin wrote:Well we have heard that there was meant to be an overheard conversation where the Words "never let them back in" are reported to have been said.

Quick summary we know the Tutors made a complaint, that this was upheld, that the complaints committee disbanded and their ruling overturned. That is the start of the current issue. The nature of the contract itself, which we have seen enough of to know it was pretty heavy handed, has added to the issue. This dispute is in mediation and arbitration which seems to be bogged down, I suppose if you do not want people back stalling the process may work.

We have no knowledge of what the Tutors can and will do if the mediation fails or is discontinued.

There has to be a possibility the problem goes back to Paul Jacobs exile by the previous NEC and the nature of the complaints against him and who raised them. Is it his resurrection, immediately Jackie Wright was elected, and return to the AFC in a more senior role as JW's close friend the major cause of the problems? Could there be previous with a group of Tutors as a result of his prior dismissal, which has led to this impasse.

mac wrote:Just as with the near-death-experience involving Psychic News several years ago, all the events discussed and debated at length in this conversation will eventually become history.  Though perhaps not forgotten they will be less important for most of us not directly involved - isn't that already the situation?   The ones who ARE involved though may well be left with long-lasting hurt and emotional scars.  

It's so sad for so many....

Many people have been hurt by the two faced nature of Spiritualism but everybody and everything in life, certainly all religion, has more than one face. I still love the AFC have great memories and strong affection for my favourite tutors.  I think the 20 tutors did a good and brave thing to make a stand and I am sure they know how to process all this with minimum emotional scarring, if any. These tutors, like most of the AFC tutors are so good at what they do because they work through love. They will be fine.

Update roll call to include known legal cases against the SNU. If as others suggest, this could increase.

Here is a roll call of honour of the growing list of people and roles who are believed to have resigned or had to withdraw their services or awards, since Jackie Wright became President. The list is growing and amongst some, are employment tribunals which are either ongoing or have been won in the complainants favour. I have removed surnames :

20 AFC Tutors plus Minister Matthew (withdrawn services)

Resigned or pushed from committees or paid employment:

Christine
Alv
Ann
Danny
Pat
Jane
Anne-Marie
Adam
Richard
Rachel (SNU)
Julia  (Resigned as elected Vice President)
Alessandro (AFC )
Dean (AFC)
Tanya AFC (AFC)
Kelly (AFC )
Will (AFC)
Minister Libby
Keith
Graham
Simone (SNUI)
Colin

To be continued….more are expected  soon….

Current Legal Proceedings Against The SNU

Employment Tribunals x 2
Civil Proceedings x 1

Let's all hope there will be happier times ahead soon.

The complaints take so long to get a response and I believe that is the tactic that you just give up. However, if you refuse to go away and have no alternative but to go down the legal route. If you accept compensation then that is when the NDA sets in. Only if you agreed to an NDA would the compensation go through. That is why no one knows about the other members problems who were gagged and where is these payouts in the accounts? Perhaps knowing this now has gave these brave individuals the confidence to go down the legal route and bring light to this situation.

When going down the arbritation or the legal route you are advised not to discuss the case. Which in all probability the Tutors are adhering to.

I am proud of the individual who has stood their ground and not giving in to arbritation because they are fighting for their rights and this will have a knock on effect on how future member's will be dealt with.

I don't believe that this will be the last of the legal cases and I think that the Tutors are still going through the same stalling tactics so that they go away.

I also heard that PJ's alleged actions prior to being exiled the first time was the same as mentioned and wouldn't be surprised if he also had something to do with the resignation of Minister Mathew Smith.

notabigjump wrote:Update roll call to include known legal cases against the SNU. If as others suggest, this could increase.

Here is a roll call of honour of the growing list of people and roles who are believed to have resigned or had to withdraw their services or awards, since Jackie Wright became President. The list is growing and amongst some, are employment tribunals which are either ongoing or have been won in the complainants favour. I have removed surnames :

20 AFC Tutors plus Minister Matthew (withdrawn services)

Resigned or pushed from committees or paid employment:

Christine
Alv
Ann
Danny
Pat
Jane
Anne-Marie
Adam
Richard
Rachel (SNU)
Julia  (Resigned as elected Vice President)
Alessandro (AFC )
Dean (AFC)
Tanya AFC (AFC)
Kelly (AFC )
Will (AFC)
Minister Libby
Keith
Graham
Simone (SNUI)
Colin

To be continued….more are expected  soon….

Current Legal Proceedings Against The SNU

Employment Tribunals x 2
Civil Proceedings x 1

Let's all hope there will be happier times ahead soon.

Sorry I can't agree with having Julia Almond on this list. She must have been complicit in accepting the position that her friend was in, knowing full well that Minister Clark had not been notified and then not offering her resignation after the BCC fiasco. Just doesn't sit well with me. Or am I the only one who is uncomfortable having the name beside the people who have genuinely been mistreated? Let's not forget that Julia was part of the NEC when the decisions were made.

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:Just as with the near-death-experience involving Psychic News several years ago, all the events discussed and debated at length in this conversation will eventually become history.  Though perhaps not forgotten they will be less important for most of us not directly involved - isn't that already the situation?   The ones who ARE involved though may well be left with long-lasting hurt and emotional scars.  

It's so sad for so many....

Many people have been hurt by the two faced nature of Spiritualism but everybody and everything in life, certainly all religion, has more than one face. I still love the AFC have great memories and strong affection for my favourite tutors.  I think the 20 tutors did a good and brave thing to make a stand and I am sure they know how to process all this with minimum emotional scarring, if any. These tutors, like most of the AFC tutors are so good at what they do because they work through love. They will be fine.

Janhar replying to Janhar ... (surely I need to stop now )
Though I still stand by what I said about some of them irritating each other ....  which is why you usually find the same ones working together. This is why the students get a loving environment (usually) to learn in.

Sorry I can't agree with having Julia Almond on this list.   She must have been complicit in accepting the position that her friend was in, knowing full well that Minister Clark had not been notified and then not offering her resignation after the BCC fiasco.   Just doesn't sit well with me.   Or am I the only one who is uncomfortable having the name beside the people who have genuinely been mistreated?  Let's not forget that Julia was part of the NEC when the decisions were made.

I don't think its meant to be about whether we like them or not, or whatever we think they did. It's simply a record of significant changes since JW came to power.

However, I am reassured from a very good source, that things were not underhand between Libby and Julia and they are still great friends.

history tells a story

I read recently that many Empaths experienced trauma in their formative years as did Narcissists. The empath turned the situation into helping people, the Narcissist however didn't and carried anger revenge into the adult life. When this is understood the Empath is progressing in the light whilst the Narcissist brings destruction and is always the victim never the victor. All the tutors who are being persecuted are Empaths! I cant comment if they experienced trauma in their early years. Hence my opening remark "many empaths"

Hurt by the two-faced nature of Spiritualism?  How more wrong could that statement be?  How sad even to say it rather than attribute the blame to where it belongs - on those individuals in the movement who may indeed be two-faced.

thought you were replying to my comment but obviously not so apologies for misunderstanding

trueprogression46 wrote: All the tutors who are being persecuted are Empaths!

Your previous statement seems to show that you have some insider knowledge,
and your subsequent words seem to suggest that those persecuting the tutors are not empaths, but are in fact narcissists?

Would you agree with either of these assessments?

trueprogression46 wrote:Mac - Narcissists are two faced - that's the point

point?  which point?  I didn't mention narcissists in my posting....  But on that point I reckon far more than just narcissists may be two-faced. (knowing winks later added to show it's all just for fun)

trueprogression46 wrote:All will be revealed in due course.

maybe..... But how will anyone know what "all" actually is or whether it's been revealed?

mac wrote:Hurt by the two-faced nature of Spiritualism?  How more wrong could that statement be?  How sad even to say it rather than attribute the blame to where it belongs - on those individuals in the movement who may indeed be two-faced.

Well I think I made it clear enough that I included every person, all things, certainly religion, in the remark. Once again you are interpreting my words on a personal level yet it could not have been a less personal remark.

Is anyone interested in discussing a spiritual/Spiritualist topic?  whipped

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:Hurt by the two-faced nature of Spiritualism?  How more wrong could that statement be?  How sad even to say it rather than attribute the blame to where it belongs - on those individuals in the movement who may indeed be two-faced.

Well I think I made it clear enough that I included every person, all things, certainly religion, in the remark. Once again you are interpreting my words on a personal level yet it could not have been a less personal remark.

You said "two-faced nature of Spiritualism".  How am I interpreting it on a personal level?

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:Hurt by the two-faced nature of Spiritualism?  How more wrong could that statement be?  How sad even to say it rather than attribute the blame to where it belongs - on those individuals in the movement who may indeed be two-faced.

Well I think I made it clear enough that I included every person, all things, certainly religion, in the remark. Once again you are interpreting my words on a personal level yet it could not have been a less personal remark.

You said "two-faced nature of Spiritualism".  How am I interpreting it on a personal level?

You said it hurt, which suggests it hurt you personally. .  You did not show further than the first line of my whole post in the quote and therefore managed to alter the context of the whole, which was, in fact, expressing my love for the AFC and affection for my favourite tutors. Instead you made it look like a short nasty comment and then objected to it.

Sorry, just realised you were quoting the “hurt” I wrote, it was not YOUR hurt. However, this shows how things get distorted when commented on line by line.

You said it hurt, which suggests it hurt you personally.

 I ended that sentence with a question mark to signify I was questioning what you'd said about Spiritualism viz. "Many people have been hurt by the two faced nature of Spiritualism but everybody and everything in life, certainly all religion, has more than one face."  

 You did not show further than the first line of my whole post in the quote

Indeed I deliberately did not.  I quoted it in isolation from the rest of your posting because I wanted to address only that single point.

.....and therefore managed to alter the context of the whole, which was, in fact, expressing my love for the AFC and affection for my favourite tutors.

Then I apologise.  It was an unwanted, unintended outcome.

So, AFC tutor Paul Jacobs is online giving his thanks to those who helped with the online version of AFC's Open Week, in his own words.

"Thank you from us both to Saskia our marketing manger , reception team , the tutors who have been the main team over the last  3 years for our online open weekend , of course all the students too, the regulars and the many many new students joining us.
What a wonderful 2 days , an honour privilege and joy to be part of.
Thank You again  to all of you"

Is he seriously giving thanks to 'the tutors who have been the "main team" over the last 3 years'
???

ANGRY is not a strong enough word for me right now.