Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

notabigjump wrote:

Janhar wrote:

notabigjump wrote:Talking of standard dress - it does not appear to be respected by the new specialist tutor Scott Milligan. Jeans t -shirts and trainers are his attire, as shown on in a recent facebook group course photograph. He is the scruffiest person in the room.



'It is important for tutors to project a professional image to students, and co- workers.
Appropriate attire and grooming are one of the means of projecting a professional image.
Tutors are expected to maintain conservative, appropriate, safe, and professional attire and
grooming when on duty. As professionals, tutors are expected to be aware of the standard to
be maintained. '

Ok it's not a major issue such as 20 good tutors being in exile at present, but its does show the hypocrisy and inconsistency of this (dis) organisation.

I would probably wear joggers and slippers just to defy, maybe a few hair rollers but as Scott (in specialist tutor role) might not be under contract (yet) what can they do?

Tell him. If he wants the same status as other tutors, he should present as such.

Maybe we should start with Scott's qualifications and how long he has been an actual member of the SNU (asking for an interested friend!!) We heard that he wasn't even a member of the SNU and many many have heard what he thought to the SNU as he was very vocal.  Now he has been inited into the bosom of the college.  Yes they can get around it all by calling him a 'specialist tutor' but if that is the case why is he running courses that have nothing to do with Trance and Trance Speaking.
I for one have never seen or heard him doing Trance Healing the way Libby does it, or Trance healing of any type. I might be wrong so please tell me if you know.  And he is a 'specialised tutor' in physical mediumship so will they go against the rules and give him his blacked out seance room he so loves, because I heard he refuses to work in a room without it being pitch black so therefore cannot in reality 'teach' physical mediumship?  Or am I not understanding the whole Physical Mediumship, Trance Healing and Specialised Tutor goings on.
Also I know that Whistleblowers in the UK are protected by Law, I saw it posted on Facebook yesterday, I'm very much looking forward to hearing what was going on behind close doors from those that have jumped ship and are continuing to jump ship.
I will hold the line until I have heard from the Tutors and the know the outcome from the AGM, hopefully someone higher up the pay scale from me will be able to find out what people who were not allowed to enter the AGM arena come judgment day and let the rest of us know or get the idea out there to all to report if they are denied access to the AGM. As before these are my own thoughts.

I have attended courses at the AFC and elsewhere over many years with many of the 20 tutors.  Of the 40 or so regular tutors of the college, those in the group of 20 are amongst the longest-serving and most respected tutors at the college.  If so many have issues and complaints, then they must be good grounds as I know that they all love the college and none would take this action lightly.

Watching from the sidelines, it appears that the current management of the SNU and AFC have no desire to negotiate an amicable settlement to have them return to teaching at the AFC.   Trusted sources state there was an unwillingness to engage in mediation from the outset.  It is widely reported that the complaints committee of the SNU found in favour of the tutors with their complaint against the President.  It is reported that the NEC then dismissed the chair and the other committee members resigned.  

The complaint has now been handed to an “independent” commission of enquiry PAID FOR by the SNU.  It is said that the work by the commission did not start in earnest until after the Presidential Election results were announced.  As the organisation commissioning and paying for the enquiry, the SNU can choose who is appointed, can dictate their scope of work, the timeline for reporting and can potentially influence the results.   So I question how it can be truly independent?

The AFC management have made the decision to remove the 20 tutors from the AFC courses for the whole of 2025 whilst the enquiry proceeds.   This strikes me as very disingenuous to the AFC tutors concerned.   Given the serious nature of this issue, I would have hoped that an enquiry would work at speed and complete their work ASAP with the results announced by the end of 2024.   Perhaps the courses for the first 3 months of 2025 could have been reallocated pending the results but to cancel the whole of their 2025 courses seems quite unfair. If the tutors complaints are upheld, then the earliest that those tutors could return to the AFC is 2026.

I can’t help but feel that decisions have already been taken at the highest level to prevent the tutors returning to the AFC in the near term.   The long process of enquiry, the cancelling of their courses for 2025 and the removal of their photos from the college wall point to that decision already having been made.

I’m sure both sides have legal representation and I hope that the issues behind this dispute can be brought into the public domain as quickly as possible.   A dispute of this nature and scale has never taken place in the history of the Arthur Findlay College and it a poor reflection of the current President/NEC/AFC Committee that they allowed this issue to reach this point and create such division and animosity within the Spiritualist movement.

unseenfriends wrote:I have attended courses at the AFC and elsewhere over many years with many of the 20 tutors.  Of the 40 or so regular tutors of the college, those in the group of 20 are amongst the longest-serving and most respected tutors at the college.  If so many have issues and complaints, then they must be good grounds as I know that they all love the college and none would take this action lightly.

Watching from the sidelines, it appears that the current management of the SNU and AFC have no desire to negotiate an amicable settlement to have them return to teaching at the AFC.   Trusted sources state there was an unwillingness to engage in mediation from the outset.  It is widely reported that the complaints committee of the SNU found in favour of the tutors with their complaint against the President.  It is reported that the NEC then dismissed the chair and the other committee members resigned.  

The complaint has now been handed to an “independent” commission of enquiry PAID FOR by the SNU.  It is said that the work by the commission did not start in earnest until after the Presidential Election results were announced.  As the organisation commissioning and paying for the enquiry, the SNU can choose who is appointed, can dictate their scope of work, the timeline for reporting and can potentially influence the results.   So I question how it can be truly independent?

The AFC management have made the decision to remove the 20 tutors from the AFC courses for the whole of 2025 whilst the enquiry proceeds.   This strikes me as very disingenuous to the AFC tutors concerned.   Given the serious nature of this issue, I would have hoped that an enquiry would work at speed and complete their work ASAP with the results announced by the end of 2024.   Perhaps the courses for the first 3 months of 2025 could have been reallocated pending the results but to cancel the whole of their 2025 courses seems quite unfair. If the tutors complaints are upheld, then the earliest that those tutors could return to the AFC is 2026.

I can’t help but feel that decisions have already been taken at the highest level to prevent the tutors returning to the AFC in the near term.   The long process of enquiry, the cancelling of their courses for 2025 and the removal of their photos from the college wall point to that decision already having been made.

I’m sure both sides have legal representation and I hope that the issues behind this dispute can be brought into the public domain as quickly as possible.   A dispute of this nature and scale has never taken place in the history of the Arthur Findlay College and it a poor reflection of the current President/NEC/AFC Committee that they allowed this issue to reach this point and create such division and animosity within the Spiritualist movement.

I agree with you completely. My concern with the AGM is whether enough members and church representatives are reading this forum, or have the full picture and magnitude of this terrible and unjust dispute. I am sure if they are, those will vote as you have previously suggested.

I heard a story about when Eric Hattons book was banned from the AFC shop as there was something critical which the then president did not like. Apparently, at the AGM the award holders and ministers all came forward and placed their badges on the top table in protest. The book was reinstated. I hope such courage is just as strong amongst members today. It is after all a union. The union of members and churches must be free to express themselves. Otherwise, the SNU cannot last much longer in its current state.

Thank you onlyvisitingearth, it’s clear that our opinions and feelings on this whole debacle clearly align. It’s certainly a trying time for us all, with much hurt and frustration. Like you, I despair that one person can reek so much havoc, how she can take so much power, I’d say be given so much power but, she certainly wasn’t given it, she has taken it by force. When we look at the significant personnel losses to the Union over the past couple of years, it begs the question as to why her “followers” aren’t seeing what she is doing. Dedicated tutors, (although I hope with all my heart that their withdrawal remains to be the intended temporary), professional managers, committed Spiritualists’, the list seems to be rising exponentially, all walking away from livelihoods, roles and positions that they love, or if they dare to disagree, being pushed! It beggars belief. For the staff and tutors that have stayed, I feel for them to a point, fear is a funny beast that can take control, however, being “safe” for only as long as you blow smoke up the “bosses” backside, really isn’t safety at all. It really could be you next! A genuine manager will recognise the value of their team and want to create a harmonious atmosphere for ALL. A genuine leader, leads by example, not by fear. A true Spiritualist will nurture and encourage, not demean and threaten.

We are stronger together, I appreciate that and, I am thinking long and hard about whether to remain a member or not. At this moment in time, it feels counterproductive to me, to pay to be a member of an organisation which is moving so far away from the values that I hold dear and has a total disregard for the Principles that are the basis and philosophy of our religion. I also wonder if a mass exodus of members, will bring more to the attention to the Charities Commission and inspire some necessary questions? I don’t know ‍�, I am trying so hard to be rational and not make knee jerk reactions, which is hard when you feel things like this so deeply. I will be at the AGM and I will be using my votes in the hope of minimising any further damage and I am hoping that all those who are as unhappy and concerned as we are will do the same.

unseenfriends wrote:I wanted to come on this thread and add my voice.  I have been reading it since the start and it is now the ONLY place where this issue can be discussed.  Other groups and users on Facebook have stopped all discussion, and where posts and discussions were made on Facebook or YouTube in the past, they have since been deleted.   I know for definite that legal threats have been made to silence some people and there is now a lot of fear around discussing it.

welcome - I'm glad you've made it and hope more will join you.

As has been said, where anyone posts anything on SNU threads that is not supportive of the SNU position, then there posts are either hidden or the person is blocked (silenced).  I know of many highly regarded long-time Spiritualists whose rational voices have been silenced in this way.

 It's futile anyone posting their views on a biased and controlled Facebook page.

The question has been asked why so few people are posting on this thread?   Many SNU members have awards, are healers, are involved at church and district level and have much to lose if they were removed from the SNU.   Hence they don’t want to be seen to be troublemakers and potentially lose what they may have spent years or decades working for.   I’m quite sure a list of “troublemakers” is being compiled and any input from those on the list will be blocked at the SNU AGM under the draconian new powers granted to the Chairman under recent bye law changes.

good points 

There are also many SNU members who have little interest in the politics of the SNU

 That includes me...

....and only pay their annual fees to retain their awards, qualifications or healer status.

shame

 

Over the last 3 decades, the SNU has always had cliques, cronyism, and many examples of poor decision-making and unfair treatment at all levels.  As a consequence, many members have little to no interest in what is happening politically.  When it came to the Presidential election, I know a lot of people who did not want to vote for either candidate for the above reasons and I think that helps explain the poor turnout.

No interest in political machinations or voting for the lesser of two evils? Yup, I get that...

Jackie Wright campaigned on the fact that she has grown the number of SNU individual members since she came into office.   That seems set to change.  In the last year or so, the SNU has removed the quarterly magazine and are trying to remove the annual diary which has had many people question what do they actually personally get for their membership fee?   Also I have seen many members post that they are so upset by the AFC Tutor issue that they are not going to renew their membership and are willing to lose their awards and qualifications.  So SNU membership seems likely to decrease in the short term.

quite possible

My concern is that if all those who oppose what is happening do leave the SNU, then it gives the current President and NEC more power to do as they please.  I would say that we need all those people to stay and to fight for what is right from within.  

 Nothing less than a major upsurge of opposition has any chance of changing anything - will folk be that motivated?

For example with the upcoming AGM, we need all those opposed to what is happening to block the proposed Motion 1/1a that would see the Presidents term of office increased to 4/3 years, to block Motion 6 that would impose a 6-month time limit for complaints and to vote for Motion 3 unamended to allow a complaint to be made against and remove a member of the NEC.

I would request that all members sit tight for a while until the full reasons for the tutors dispute come to light and the outcomes of the various complaints to regulators are determined.   I understand that the UK fundraising regulator is investigating the SNU and that complaints have been submitted to the Charities Commission.  Also the electronic voting in the recent election is questionable under the Articles of Assiciation so the election may even need to be re-run.

I think there's little else anyone can do other than sit tight because it may be only the regulatory bodies that might be able to clip the wings of the bods in charge followed by employment law specialists representing the tutors.  I'm especially looking forward to hearing what the Fundraising Regulator has to say and also whomever from Companies House.  The AGM and voting is likely to have finished by then with the new management structures in place.

notabigjump wrote:

unseenfriends wrote:
There are also many SNU members who have little interest in the politics of the SNU and only pay their annual fees to retain their awards, qualifications or healer status.  Over the last 3 decades, the SNU has always had cliques, cronyism, and many examples of poor decision-making and unfair treatment at all levels.  As a consequence, many members have little to no interest in what is happening politically.
.

I am unfortunately hearing that many church committees are not interested in the tutor dispute, nor concerned about the proposed 4 year term.

Also, as we see more 'end of course photos' without the 20 tutors being posted, they appear too sugar coated in praise and send a message that all is fine at the AFC. I am sure this is deliberate.

The dispute has been drawn out unfairly for the tutors, but interest is waning as so many don't understand it (no fault of the tutors who honour the NDA).

Many of us are doing what we can to express our concerns here, but we are starting to rehash old information, until the next update.

We're sounding like an LP with its needle stuck in the groove - me in particular! All the rest of the business comes down to the bods in charge toughing it out with the expectation their way will soon prevail totally.....

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:

Maybe we should start with Scott's qualifications and how long he has been an actual member of the SNU (asking for an interested friend!!) We heard that he wasn't even a member of the SNU and many many have heard what he thought to the SNU as he was very vocal.  Now he has been inited into the bosom of the college.  Yes they can get around it all by calling him a 'specialist tutor' but if that is the case why is he running courses that have nothing to do with Trance and Trance Speaking.
I for one have never seen or heard him doing Trance Healing the way Libby does it, or Trance healing of any type. I might be wrong so please tell me if you know.  And he is a 'specialised tutor' in physical mediumship so will they go against the rules and give him his blacked out seance room he so loves, because I heard he refuses to work in a room without it being pitch black so therefore cannot in reality 'teach' physical mediumship?  Or am I not understanding the whole Physical Mediumship, Trance Healing and Specialised Tutor goings on.

However justified criticism may be felt to be, when individuals get picked out and are picked on it can appear petty - principles and practices matter most.

notabigjump wrote:

I agree with you completely. My concern with the AGM is whether enough members and church representatives are reading this forum, or have the full picture and magnitude of this terrible and unjust dispute. I am sure if they are, those will vote as you have previously suggested.

I very much doubt enough interested/involved individuals to make a difference have been reading what we've been discussing. I very much hope I'm proven wrong.

With the lack of tutors now available, the AFC has recruited Scott Milligan as a Specialist Tutor and Natalie Walker as a Guest Tutor to work on courses this year and next.  I respect both as mediums and teachers and don’t like to focus on individuals only the system of appointment.   To my knowledge, neither have any SNU qualifications or awards and neither has followed the required training to become an AFC tutor.   I expect the AFC will also draft in other Guest Tutors over the next year who similarly have not completed the required training.

The journey to become an AFC tutor is not an easy one and has many steps which have to be passed.  To become a tutor, you have to have a CSNU award in Speaking and Demonstrating.  This involves education courses, in person training and assessment of your mediumship and public speaking by an awards panel.   You then have to do a CSNU award in teaching at the Barbanell centre which is a year long course and quite involved.  This enables you to teach at ‘church level’.

You then need to do a DSNU award in the disciplines you wish to teach (mediumship, speaking, healing, trance etc.)  again quite a laborious process involving multiple educational courses, in person training and assessments.   Then you have to do the DSNU award in teaching which I believe takes place at the Barbanell centre.

If you successfully pass them all, you can then then get appointed as an Assistant Tutor at the AFC where you work unpaid on 3 or so weeks for your work to be assessed.  Then if you are of the right standard, you get appointed as an AFC tutor.

This whole process takes around 4 to 5 years and involves very significant time and expense (probably thousands in course fees and hotel bills).  Many who try fail at various stages so it is indeed a significant achievement to become an AFC tutor.   To appoint tutors who have not done any of this is unfair to those who have and makes a mockery of the system.  The tutors who have spent many many hours and thousands of pounds to get appointed as tutors would have every right to be upset at those “getting in through the back door”.

I remember not so long ago when respected medium Darren Britain was booked to do a service on SNUi (the internet branch of the SNU).  Shortly before the service, he was cancelled because he did not hold a CSNU award in demonstrating mediumship despite being well known as a highly evidential medium.  So the SNU would not allow those without an SNU award to even demonstrate at the regular services they held online.

To now bring in tutors without any SNU qualifications or awards to teach and take services at the AFC (their top teaching centre) flies in the face of previous decisions.  It just seems plain wrong and undermines the standards on which the current system has been built.

unseenfriends wrote:With the lack of tutors now available, the AFC has recruited Scott Milligan as a Specialist Tutor and Natalie Walker as a Guest Tutor to work on courses this year and next.  I respect both as mediums and teachers and don’t like to focus on individuals only the system of appointment.   To my knowledge, neither have any SNU qualifications or awards and neither has followed the required training to become an AFC tutor.   I expect the AFC will also draft in other Guest Tutors over the next year who similarly have not completed the required training.

The journey to become an AFC tutor is not an easy one and has many steps which have to be passed.  To become a tutor, you have to have a CSNU award in Speaking and Demonstrating.  This involves education courses, in person training and assessment of your mediumship and public speaking by an awards panel.   You then have to do a CSNU award in teaching at the Barbanell centre which is a year long course and quite involved.  This enables you to teach at ‘church level’.

You then need to do a DSNU award in the disciplines you wish to teach (mediumship, speaking, healing, trance etc.)  again quite a laborious process involving multiple educational courses, in person training and assessments.   Then you have to do the DSNU award in teaching which I believe takes place at the Barbanell centre.

If you successfully pass them all, you can then then get appointed as an Assistant Tutor at the AFC where you work unpaid on 3 or so weeks for your work to be assessed.  Then if you are of the right standard, you get appointed as an AFC tutor.

This whole process takes around 4 to 5 years and involves very significant time and expense (probably thousands in course fees and hotel bills).  Many who try fail at various stages so it is indeed a significant achievement to become an AFC tutor.   To appoint tutors who have not done any of this is unfair to those who have and makes a mockery of the system.  The tutors who have spent many many hours and thousands of pounds to get appointed as tutors would have every right to be upset at those “getting in through the back door”.

I remember not so long ago when respected medium Darren Britain was booked to do a service on SNUi (the internet branch of the SNU).  Shortly before the service, he was cancelled because he did not hold a CSNU award in demonstrating mediumship despite being well known as a highly evidential medium.  So the SNU would not allow those without an SNU award to even demonstrate at the regular services they held online.

To now bring in tutors without any SNU qualifications or awards to teach and take services at the AFC (their top teaching centre) flies in the face of previous decisions.  It just seems plain wrong and undermines the standards on which the current system has been built.

It is wrong and contradicatory without doubt. The SNU Tutors who have gone through the entire system, could have a case for compensation against the SNU, if a precedent has been set.

I hope the group has deep pockets to take it to law for compensation.

mac wrote:I hope the group has deep pockets to take it to law for compensation.

I doubt any of them will be after compensation. They will want things changed and the unfairness to stop…..or at least be at a normal level, nothing is ever completely fair.

MoMer wrote:Mostly, I hope that those responsible for decimating the reputation of the SNU and the AFC, for breaking hearts, rules and laws, will be held accountable. I will be using my vote to go against anything that will make it easier for Jackie Wright to do any more damage than she has already done.

I think this says it all
Thank you for speaking out

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:I hope the group has deep pockets to take it to law for compensation.

I doubt any of them will be after compensation. They will want things changed and the unfairness to stop…..or at least be at a normal level, nothing is ever completely fair.  

It was YOU who had mentioned they might have a case for compensation....   later edit: apologies to Janhar - my mistake - not him

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:I hope the group has deep pockets to take it to law for compensation.

I doubt any of them will be after compensation. They will want things changed and the unfairness to stop…..or at least be at a normal level, nothing is ever completely fair.  

It was YOU who had mentioned they might have a case for compensation....  

You are mistaken

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:I hope the group has deep pockets to take it to law for compensation.

I doubt any of them will be after compensation. They will want things changed and the unfairness to stop…..or at least be at a normal level, nothing is ever completely fair.  

It was YOU who had mentioned they might have a case for compensation....  

You are mistaken

I do beg your pardon. I misread the posting. Again my apologies.

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:I hope the group has deep pockets to take it to law for compensation.

I doubt any of them will be after compensation. They will want things changed and the unfairness to stop…..or at least be at a normal level, nothing is ever completely fair.  

It was YOU who had mentioned they might have a case for compensation....  

You are mistaken

I do beg your pardon.     I misread the posting.  Again my apologies.  

I’ll let you off….you are getting old

gettin' old? - getting ever older!!

Slatewriter wrote:

MoMer wrote:Mostly, I hope that those responsible for decimating the reputation of the SNU and the AFC, for breaking hearts, rules and laws, will be held accountable. I will be using my vote to go against anything that will make it easier for Jackie Wright to do any more damage than she has already done.

I think this says it all
Thank you for speaking out

Very well said MoMer and Slatewriter

Age is a number Mac; we should give Jackie Wright et al, thanks for allowing us to use our grumpiness in a positive way.

Admin wrote:Age is a number Mac; we should give Jackie Wright et al, thanks for allowing us to use our grumpiness in a positive way.

Oh I don't think I would want to go quite THAT far!    lol  

Interestingly I HAVE seen a few individuals sending her congratulations. I'm wondering if they might come from church beneficiaries of her generosity..... Not everyone will be unhappy about events, I expect.

mac wrote:later edit:  apologies to Janhar - my mistake - not him

or HER in fact. Time for the big reveal ‍�

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:later edit:  apologies to Janhar - my mistake - not him

or HER in fact. Time for the big reveal ‍

oopsies again   I did think I'd read someone refer to you as "he" but if that's wrong then again I am happy to say sorry.  

I usually do use "her/him" and "(s)he" when I don't know someone.

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:later edit:  apologies to Janhar - my mistake - not him

or HER in fact. Time for the big reveal ‍

oopsies again   I did think I'd read someone refer to you as "he" but if that's wrong then again I am happy to say sorry.  

I usually do use "her/him" and "(s)he" when I don't know someone.

Well there was no way for you to know and it doesn't matter. Was just jesting. We will soon be back to the serious stuff.

I'm not sure I really do want to get back to the serious stuff here that I've had already had weeks of......