Is Spiritualism really evolving?

Could be tough back in the [not so] good old days. Alf Kitson records persecution of early Spiritualist meeting. Mobs outside meeting places, Spiritualists wells in the days before tap water were sometimes poisoned. He tells of one time his circle was meeting in a house. Mobster climbed on the roof ripped off slates and put some over the chimney to smoke out the Spiritualists. Worst we usually face from the public today is indifference and all the 'well poisoners' come from amongst our own ranks.

I seem to remember reading about that somewhere.
The old Salem witch days.
And of course our own witches here,Pendle Hill?

KatyKing wrote:Could be tough back in the [not so] good old days. Alf Kitson records persecution of early Spiritualist meeting. Mobs outside meeting places, Spiritualists wells in the days before tap water were sometimes poisoned. He tells of one time his circle was meeting in a house. Mobster climbed on the roof ripped off slates and put some over the chimney to smoke out the Spiritualists. Worst we usually face from the public today is indifference and all the 'well poisoners' come from amongst our own ranks.

Yeah. Sometimes outside persecution brings internal harmony - or at least cooperation out of self-defense and necessity.

This was just around late nineteenth century in Yorkshire.
Still a mob undercurrent though. Last summer's riots here and recently near Mrs Ks home town a mob wrecked a takeaway due to erroneous rumour that the owner was involved in one of those grooming gangs. Riot police called out to that.
Indifference is safer but Kitson makes same point as you Jim. The worse the persecution the stronger the bond amongst his circle.

I think that would have to depend upon your definition of evolving. Evolution implies adapting to change, but it also implies specializing to live in a niche environment. As we all know, when change comes, as it inevitably does, it is the niche creatures which tend to go extinct first and the generalist creatures which tend to survive and adapt to the new environments. So perhaps rather than asking about evolution, we should be asking whether Spiritualism is serving a niche of the population or serving the general population.
We might also ask whether or not our current population is a healthy one with plenty of offspring to continue when we pass over. Evolution always implies that one foot is in the grave... but near extinction as well as newly evolved is one foot out of the grave. Where is Spiritualism in the evolutionary scheme?

You still seem to be replying to very old threads - why is this?

equal-spirit wrote:...So perhaps rather than asking about evolution, we should be asking whether Spiritualism is serving a niche of the population or serving the general population...Evolution always implies that one foot is in the grave... but near extinction as well as newly evolved is one foot out of the grave. Where is Spiritualism in the evolutionary scheme?

The same place as physical mediumship. One foot in the grave. Don't believe in dishonest mediums or religions which support them! They feed off the gullible and make a lot of money out of it. Ask Colin Fry.

I don't need to tell you that you need to look into the subject more deeply. Mediums contradict themselves. All mediumship is fraud. All the mediums you contradict each other. Mediumship is nonsense. The problem is, is that Spiritualism is a religion and no matter how much evidence is against it, the Spiritualists still believe. There is nothing wrong with believing, but it is dishonest when they claim their beliefs are scientific.

eveshi wrote:

equal-spirit wrote:...So perhaps rather than asking about evolution, we should be asking whether Spiritualism is serving a niche of the population or serving the general population...Evolution always implies that one foot is in the grave... but near extinction as well as newly evolved is one foot out of the grave. Where is Spiritualism in the evolutionary scheme?

The same place as physical mediumship. One foot in the grave. Don't believe in dishonest mediums or religions which support them! They feed off the gullible and make a lot of money out of it. Ask Colin Fry.

I don't need to tell you that you need to look into the subject more deeply. Mediums contradict themselves. All mediumship is fraud. All the mediums you contradict each other. Mediumship is nonsense. The problem is, is that Spiritualism is a religion and no matter how much evidence is against it, the Spiritualists still believe. There is nothing wrong with believing, but it is dishonest when they claim their beliefs are scientific.

Eveshi as a 26 year old pseudo skeptic I believe you are on the wrong forum Skeptiko would be a better bet. Get back to an in depth study of history and philosophy within Spiritualism and you may get a real surprise. For interest look around this forum, we are regular challenger's of fraud and in the Physical mediumship section you will see much against Dark Séances. This thread is not about the issues you have written on.

@ Admin:

I'm the user "eveshi" from the mind-energy.net forum (I can prove this, e. g. by posting a text of your choice on the forum). The person who posted in this topic under the name "eveshi" is not me, but a very troubled individual that is currently impersonating me on various websites (Michael Prescott's blog, Michael Tymn's blog, The Daily Grail, possibly others).

I'd appreciate it if you could do something about this.

If you need further information or validation that I'm really "eveshi", just ask.

Thank you!

The problem has been sorted rammaq, however, I do wish all of the people involved in the MU!! Forest eveshi names would keep there games to one forum, I am not even sure that equal-spirit is not one of them as well as the Darryl who insists on emailing me.

Oh well I suspect my ban control button is going to be very busy soon

well done, Jim! And yes I wondered about equal-spirit too who backs away from any serious questioning and has huge holes in his claimed knowledge as we've seen.

The saying "Get a life" seems so appropriate for such individuals....

There is one consistency about equal-spirit they state Canada as an address and the postings are from Canada. However, there are some very serious knowledge issues as well as other concerns that I have.

Admin wrote:There is one consistency about equal-spirit they state Canada as an address and the postings are from Canada. However, there are some very serious knowledge issues as well as other concerns that I have.

I had deduced the member was based in Canada from certain words he'd used - I'm guessing it's a male.

The aspect of Canada alone means some differences from the UK Spiritualism I'm familiar with and Australia's too from what I've learned of it from my contact with you and Lis. But I doubt the sincerity of the new member despite the many words written and along with the fundamental errors. (which have little to do with him coming from Canada!)

It's hard to fathom why such individuals spend so much time and effort apparently drawing us to respond to their nonsense and it just seems that every so often someone will appear on websites like yours, Jim, bent on mischief-making.

mac wrote:

Admin wrote:There is one consistency about equal-spirit they state Canada as an address and the postings are from Canada. However, there are some very serious knowledge issues as well as other concerns that I have.

I had deduced the member was based in Canada from certain words he'd used - I'm guessing it's a male.

The aspect of Canada alone means some differences from the UK Spiritualism I'm familiar with and Australia's too from what I've learned of it from my contact with you and Lis. But I doubt the sincerity of the new member despite the many words written and along with the fundamental errors. (which have little to do with him coming from Canada!)

It's hard to fathom why such individuals spend so much time and effort apparently drawing us to respond to their nonsense and it just seems that every so often someone will appear on websites like yours, Jim, bent on mischief-making.

Yes I am from Canada. Yes I am a male. Yes I have made some fundamental errors when discussing things I thought I knew. Since everything seems to point at a complete lack of knowledge or credibility on my part, I expect you will not believe me when I say that my intentions are neither mischievous nor harmful.
Delete anything and/or everything you want, I'm just here to learn.

equal-spirit wrote:

mac wrote:

Admin wrote:There is one consistency about equal-spirit they state Canada as an address and the postings are from Canada. However, there are some very serious knowledge issues as well as other concerns that I have.

I had deduced the member was based in Canada from certain words he'd used - I'm guessing it's a male.

The aspect of Canada alone means some differences from the UK Spiritualism I'm familiar with and Australia's too from what I've learned of it from my contact with you and Lis. But I doubt the sincerity of the new member despite the many words written and along with the fundamental errors. (which have little to do with him coming from Canada!)

It's hard to fathom why such individuals spend so much time and effort apparently drawing us to respond to their nonsense and it just seems that every so often someone will appear on websites like yours, Jim, bent on mischief-making.

Yes I am from Canada. Yes I am a male. Yes I have made some fundamental errors when discussing things I thought I knew. Since everything seems to point at a complete lack of knowledge or credibility on my part, I expect you will not believe me when I say that my intentions are neither mischievous nor harmful.
Delete anything and/or everything you want, I'm just here to learn.

Here just to learn? Then I hope you find what you're seeking. I wouldn't say you had a total lack of credibility but it's hard to take you seriously based on what you've said. From my own position I find it hard work even to read the long pieces you post let alone try to respond to the various points in there. Maybe that's just my failing as I'm a simple-minded soul but for me KISS is a useful principle and deploying it makes replying easier.

What you've been immersed in for the past couple of decades I can't even guess but it's left you with an approach that feels very different to matters of the spirit as I have learned them. Others will have their say shortly I'm sure so for now I'll wait to see what you present for discussion.

I would like to share this article transcribed from a newspaper called 'The Two Worlds' March 26th 1948.

What Has Spiritualism achieved since 1848?

Spiritualism, during a century of existence, has proved survival to millions of people in many countries. It has saved a myriad of stricken mourners from despair. It has forced innumerable scientists to admit its claims after a hostile enquiry. It has explained so-called 'miracles' by spreading a knowledge of natural law.

After saying that, I find it hard to answer the question, 'What has Spiritualism achieved since the Rochester rappings?'

It is always difficult to estimate the effect on society of a revolutionary idea. The change takes so many forms. Often, it is indefinite. Progress is seldom a move in a straight forward direction.
.
Besides, it must be recognised that proof of our claims have not been confined in a 'movement'; in my view, they will never be. Over and over again, spirit guides have declared, 'There are too many organisations already. They have always failed us. We intend to permeate society with our revelations, not to build up a new body or establish a new Church'.

The result of the permeation is, indeed, remarkable.

When I was a boy, the trappings of funereal woe spread grief wherever they were seen. Horses dragging along hearses wore ugly plumes that were as black as coal. Hired mutes looked like ravens walking to the gallows. The horrors of Hell were preached from the pulpit, by Soloman Eagles who told of the wrath to come.

Anglicans sang, at burial services: 'Day of Wrath! O day of warning! Heaven and Earth in ashes burning!'

They chanted, 'Worthless are my prayers and sighing' and 'While the wicked are confounded'.

I recall, too, the abyssmal gloom of the hymn: 'When the solemn death-bell tolls, for our own departed souls, When our final doom is near.'

Even the poorest workers spent the insurance money on a funeral that would impress the neighbours. After it, they handed round ham sandwiches made from meat they had often kept for weeks to consume after what was a ceremony of which 'savages' should have been ashamed. Christianity then seemed to be based on fears of the anger of a vengeful deity.

Today, much of that has gone - and yet the only new teaching about death that has come to the world to effect the change is the teaching that has poured through humble mediums that, even today are subject to punishment intended to stop 'witchcraft' and 'vagrancy'.

Preachers at funeral services now frequently speak of the 'dead' as people present in the congregation. Death is regarded as a release and not as a prelude to punishment. Cremation is becoming more and more general, largely because Spiritualist teaching has insisted that the idea of a physical resurrection is ridiculous.

Spiritualism, too, has done much to bridge the gap between religions that not long ago were almost openly at war. People belonging to all the Christian sects except the Catholics, the Salvationists and the Plymouth Brethren have all shared our platforms. So have Buddhists, Moslems and Hindus. I have myself spoken on Spiritualism in the mosque at Woking.

The earthly reasons for our failure to organise Spiritualism into a mighty army are many. For one thing, it is almost impossible to control mediumship, most of which has started spontaneously in families outside our ranks. It would be hard, indeed, to evolve a way of placing it under management, even if we had the financial means with which to endow it.

As for our religious services, many former Christians used to ritual and a liturgy are dissatisfied with the comparative coldness of our lack of a formula. On the other hand, most Agnostics who become convinced of Survival cannot fit themselves into devotional practices. Many folk to whom we prove our cause prefer to remain inside the orthodoxies from which they cannot mentally free themselves. They object to the fact that we do not hail Jesus as 'divine'. Only in the framework of the democratic systems of Britain and the United States can Spiritualism function with any freedom. It is, indeed, in those countries where, apart fromt he healers in South America, nearly all mediums are to be found.

No, most of the results of a century of Spiritualist propaganda are hard to fasten down or to explain in words that would not need much qualification. It has been an enfranchising mission. It has swept away infinite prejudice. It has been a unifying influence, whereas most of the other ideas born in the field of religion have become barriers between nations, between classes and between sects.

But in the case of most of its adherents, fervent in their early days, what was a fervour has become merely an acceptance. That is one reason why the statement, 'There are perhaps 1,000,000 Spiritualists in Britain' can neither be proved nor controverted. People enquire, they receive proof, and then they drift back to the churches in which they spent their childhood - or else they give up religion altogether.

Our speakers, since they cannot threaten a Hell or promise a Heaven, cannot continually interest them. And, except in the home circle, mediumship loses its attraction soon after its wonders have ceased to excite.

Spiritualism, whatever the weaknesses of the bodies that proclaim it, is the only religion out of which a new world can be born. The orthodox creeds are dying because of the narrowness of their doctrines and because of the dreary reiteration of texts and hymns which no longer have a meaning.

By Hannen Swaffer 1879 - 1962

I have typed this directly from the newspaper article because I think it is so very well expressed. And I think it demonstrates that it is not just the intellect that needs to be fed....but the soul.....What does the soul feed on? Hope, I suppose. Anything which suggests that there is more to us than flesh and blood, like music, poetry, love, compassion.....feeds the Hope......long may it do so.

Many thanks for that Penelope68 those thoughts are still relevant today.

Spiritualism is. not evolving, it is recording. The Services are. mostly psychic,misleading the congregation into thinking they are receiving Spirit. I have watched the worsening of the standards of "Mediumship" what passes for so-called "spirit" information can be dangerous,intrusive. and upsetting.
I say this because I have listened to"mediums" who state peoples personal information on public which is outrageous. The church,s administration should find out whether is a genuine mediumship before they are allowed on the platform. I hoped against hope that this abysmal situation would changed It didn't,t so. I took sabbatical away from Spiriualist churches because it was making me. I'll I would sooner have my health than sit and listen to twaddle from non mediums

OiL meant retreating spell checker error

Hi, joining this thread a bit late in the piece but hello all, anyway ... I see such a trend away from the core Spiritualist principles in 'modern' Spiritualist churches (other than the one I attend myself, which has upheld the fundamental 'evidence of life after life' purpose), but it's getting harder and harder to encourage new and younger people to our services (which I admit tend to be very much traditional). I'm in my 50's and have been involved in the movement via my family since I was a child, so this is totally dear to my heart.  But I believe it has to evolve to survive the massive amount of information out there, which to me is largely 'New Age' and psychic in origin ... can only speak for myself but I'm bothered by the proliferation of 'psychic mediums' setting up home circles without having had the benefit of some real old fashioned solid learning, and the quality of mediumship is clearly suffering to boot.  But I also know some lovely people working on the periphery of Spiritualism who've not had the benefit of absorbing the philosophy over the years I have, and they are only working with what is available to them knowledge-wise.  I'm developing as a psychic artist and people want me to draw spirit guides and I hope I am not offending them when I say, it will be up to Spirit, but my aim and objective is to get evidential drawings - very hard to provide a photo of a guide as evidence   .  Still I believe our own church needs to open it's doors to becoming more of a centre of learning, rather than provide the usual 'services', hopefully attracting newcomers and give them the opportunity to learn from some of our experienced mediums, older folk still working from the platform and running real development circles.  Anyway, just my simple thoughts on the subject, my first and foremost objective is service.  By the way, we have mediums who have a great sense of humour, it lifts the vibration away from the sanctimonious, am sure a sense of humour survives 'death' don't you reckon? As I'm a total newbie to this forum, should also say that I am in NZ, for those who might wonder.

Hi Milly,

You are amongst people who would agree with most of your points. My problem, when leading an Adelaide centre is to try and ensure people become aware of what Spiritualism and its Philosophy represents and why Proof of Survival is so important. Becoming centre's of learning is very close to our heart and we are working on that. I think that as, it would appear, Sunday meetings are losing relevance and numbers this becomes even more important.

Welcome to the forum I suspect we are friends on Facebook.

Jim

Hello Jim, I suspect so, too!!  Thank you for the warm welcome!  I note that the local 'churches' who are gradually becoming more 'New Age' are getting better attendances than our more traditional (flagship) church.  Being that the Church I have had long association with is one of the oldest organisations with a history going back over 100 years now, it's so sad to see.  Some wonderful mediums both local and overseas have graced the platform there over the years.  It seems people want 'more' than traditional Spiritualist philosophy - I even had someone say to me the other day, "well we don't just want mediumship, we want wisdom from greater beings".  I guess I struggle a bit with that, for many reasons.  One, that there is an inference that individual 'messages' are somewhat passe (even boring for other than the recipients).  Even more so, that there seems to be a stampede to get to this apparently more 'elevated' communication, bypassing fundamental development techniques and the work done over years to establish harmonious conditions for communication.  Anyway, that's just my simple perspective ... I'm not trying to be intellectual, I'm just passionate that all the good work done should not lose its impact, nor egotism take the place of genuine desire to work with Spirit towards Spirit's objective.

Keep speaking up Milly, most of the "wisdom from higher beings" is subconscious channellings based upon the words of other so called channellers.

I have even heard someone say their alien guide is wiser than God !

Gently we need to try and remind them the latest and greatest may be meaningless as all the new age hype was about the Mayan Calendar, just another of the cyclic regurgitating of the ascension movement with starseed etc etc.

On the ascension movement this piece by our friend Roger Brown (now passed to Spirit) is well worth reading. I know the trance medium who produced the final part very well indeed, if that is not a give away. https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t121-ascended-masters-and-ascension-by-roger-brown#300

That was an illuminating piece, Jim! Would it be OK for me to reproduce it elsewhere, of course attributing copyright to the author?