Spiritualism - what next?

Good thread Mac I will write an answer when I can stop and think about it so I can answer in the most comprehensive way. Many thoughts about this, especilly as I feel, like you, that Spiritualism may be fading before our eyes, the SNU heading for a real church with ministerial council etc, others encompassing all the fads as they roll along and few really looking at the strengths of teh underlying philosophy and the evidence of survival.

Lets just quickly look at some facts; only the most hardened sceptics could really contest the weight of evidence behind the fact survival beyond death is proven. Yes throw all the frauds up but as William James said we only need one White Crow and we have a murder of them.

We are the only religion (God help us a religion because we accept God and with the best will that is one entity it is almost impossible to prove) that really sets out to encompass the Brotherhood of Man under one God (all tribes races, sexes  and religions OK thats the ideal I know ideals are blunted by personalities) , We also have a simple set of principles to try and attain but we acknowledge peoples weaknesses.

Much much more to this but of itself those two paragraphs show why we should stand up for our beliefs without needing to creeate any theological, ministerial edifice to compete as a major religion.

I'm not sure that the old issue of fraud in mediumship matters that much because it just doesn't seem relevant in this modern world - not to the folk that I 'speak' to online.  

I hear from folk interested in DIY trans-dimensional communication rather than having to hunt out few-and-far-between - and expensive! - commercial psychic practitioners.  I'm deliberately avoiding calling 'em mediums because from what they tell me, not all of 'em are.  

Many practitioners appear to be psychics - psychic readers - and without the network of Spiritualist churches we've got here in the UK, finding a reliable and authentic evidential medium is tough if not impossible.  Just like Oz the North American continent's a big un - a trip to a medium may involve a trip of many miles and cost many dollars.  Is there any wonder folk are much more interested in DIY - doing it themselves? All the issues just mentioned are eliminated along with the risk of fraudulent mediumship.

I'm not suggesting those techniques are necessarily effective (although it's claimed they are) but they do have a certain appeal to folk who may be short of the money and time needed to get to see a medium. Modern Spiritualism, as I refer to our movement, is often hardly known about and even when explained doesn't appear to appeal to many.

I attend a Unity church: largely because there isn't a Spiritualist church in Louisiana, Mississippi, or Alabama. (Analogize it to living in Portsmouth and the closest Spiritualist church is in Edinburgh). It is a very untraditional, inclusive, esoteric sort of Christian denomination: I just an hour ago got back from a class they are offering in Buddhism: which is also the topic for the Pastor's Sunday sermons this month.

The congregation consists of a few kooks, to be sure: but most of them are well-educated: college graduates, advanced degrees. We have lawyers, physicians, a judge. People of all ages and all races.

Many of them can go on at length about. . . Buddhism, Hinduism, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism. Probably most of them meditate. Some have studied under monks and gurus in India and Tibet. They can talk at length about Ram Dass and the Dalai Lama, reincarnation and karma, past life regressions, Blavatsky, Steiner, etc.

Spiritualism? The first time I visited there I told someone I was a Spiritualist. He started telling me about Allan Kardec, The Spirits' Book. . .

When I told him that no, that was Spiritism, that I was a Spiritualist: that Spiritism was something related, but different. . . he drew a blank. Never heard of Spiritualism: never ever heard the word before. I later came to realize that I'd met the only person there who had ever heard of Kardec or Spiritism, for that matter.

One church board member told me that the idea of spirit contact (mental mediumship) absolutely terrified her.

I've learned not to ever even mention topics like ectoplasm and materialization!

Does all this dismay me? Sure. Does it dishearten me? Hell, no! I welcome the opportunity to spread the word! Just tonight  a woman asked me for a suggestion about something to read about our beloved subject. I recommended The World Unseen compilation.

It's sad that so many today are searching for the truth, the facts, and are getting little but New Age nonsense. But the way I look at it: the less they know, the greater is our need to spread the word to them.

mac, Didn't the entire (industry?) begin with DIY? Local folk with gaslight or firelight, tangible Spirit contact and an unshakeable urge to continue to seek? The very real threat of arrest was never a deterrent to these folk.
Perhaps something was lost in trying to make it 'respectable'?
The Home Circle was and is indispensable.

hiorta wrote:mac, Didn't the entire (industry?) begin with DIY? Local folk with gaslight or firelight, tangible Spirit contact and an unshakeable urge to continue to seek? The very real threat of arrest was never a deterrent to these folk.
Perhaps something was lost in trying to make it 'respectable'?
The Home Circle was and is indispensable.

The 'DIY' I was writing about doesn't involve a medium. It's the contacting of a discarnate loved one directly without the involvement of a third-party medium - doing it yourself.

As for seeking, well the folk I speak too are primarily seeking to make contact with a loved one who has passed over. Mostly they're already persuaded about survival but beyond that I'm unsure if they're interested in finding out about anything else. When I've raised the aspect of 'what comes before and what comes after' survival it does not seem to bring a reaction but I've always had deep interest in such issues.

The pioneers of Modern Spiritualism, be they home circles or whatever, were motivated differently from today's sitters, it appears. Whether home circles and/or church development groups etc. have much relevance nowadays is unclear. When I raise such matters online there are few responses. It may be different in a church or centre but there we may largely be preaching to the choir.

I'm not saying I endorse what happens elsewhere but I'm very much aware that what Spiritualism offered me doesn't appear of any interest to many of the folk I 'speak' to online. They're approaching matters of the spirit in ways very different from my own.

I'm usually the only Modern Spiritualist active on discussion pages.

Left Behind wrote:I attend a Unity church: largely because there isn't a Spiritualist church in Louisiana, Mississippi, or Alabama. (Analogize it to living in Portsmouth and the closest Spiritualist church is in Edinburgh). It is a very untraditional, inclusive, esoteric sort of Christian denomination: I just an hour ago got back from a class they are offering in Buddhism: which is also the topic for the Pastor's Sunday sermons this month.

The congregation consists of a few kooks, to be sure: but most of them are well-educated: college graduates, advanced degrees. We have lawyers, physicians, a judge. People of all ages and all races.

Many of them can go on at length about. . . Buddhism, Hinduism, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism. Probably most of them meditate. Some have studied under monks and gurus in India and Tibet. They can talk at length about Ram Dass and the Dalai Lama, reincarnation and karma, past life regressions, Blavatsky, Steiner, etc.

Spiritualism? The first time I visited there I told someone I was a Spiritualist. He started telling me about Allan Kardec, The Spirits' Book. . .

When I told him that no, that was Spiritism, that I was a Spiritualist: that Spiritism was something related, but different. . . he drew a blank. Never heard of Spiritualism: never ever heard the word before. I later came to realize that I'd met the only person there who had ever heard of Kardec or Spiritism, for that matter.

One church board member told me that the idea of spirit contact (mental mediumship) absolutely terrified her.

I've learned not to ever even mention topics like ectoplasm and materialization!

Does all this dismay me? Sure. Does it dishearten me? Hell, no! I welcome the opportunity to spread the word! Just tonight  a woman asked me for a suggestion about something to read about our beloved subject. I recommended The World Unseen compilation.

It's sad that so many today are searching for the truth, the facts, and are getting little but New Age nonsense. But the way I look at it: the less they know, the greater is our need to spread the word to them.

Provided 'your' church meets your needs then my view is go-for-it.  How ironic, though, that the country in which the Spiritualist movement has its roots is one where so little is now known about it!  My online presence shows that few American contacts have much awareness of it either and see (Modern) 'Spiritualism' as the same as spiritualism, a conversation I've all-but done to death on forums in the past several years.  

When I spend my winters in AZ as a guest in America I rarely mention my own persuasion because so many Americans and Canucks alike are overtly mainstream-church orientated and influenced.  The God, Jesus and Bible bunch as I think of them.  Lovely, warm people on the whole but hardly the ones for whom Modern Spiritualism would make any sense.  

The town in which I live there has probably 15 to 20 churches serving 50,000 folk, yet the nearest Spiritualist church is 60 miles away.  Here in the UK I could visit a dozen in my locality.

hiorta wrote:mac, Didn't the entire (industry?) begin with DIY? Local folk with gaslight or firelight, tangible Spirit contact and an unshakeable urge to continue to seek? The very real threat of arrest was never a deterrent to these folk.
Perhaps something was lost in trying to make it 'respectable'?
The Home Circle was and is indispensable.

Yes: and wouldn't it be wonderful if those great old days would return?

I don't think that the lack of interest in Modern Spiritualism in the US has much to do with opposition from the mainstream traditional churches. They are there, yes, in droves: but attendance is dropping.

I think that the main problem is that our culture is so now-oriented, youth-oriented, and consumption and good times-oriented that people rarely give a thought to their own physical demise and when they do, they are self and culturally conditioned to turn their thoughts back away from the idea.

Who really cares if there's life after death or what that life will be like if you've conditioned yourself to avoid thinking that you're ever going to die in the first place?

Left Behind wrote:

hiorta wrote:mac, Didn't the entire (industry?) begin with DIY? Local folk with gaslight or firelight, tangible Spirit contact and an unshakeable urge to continue to seek? The very real threat of arrest was never a deterrent to these folk.
Perhaps something was lost in trying to make it 'respectable'?
The Home Circle was and is indispensable.

Yes: and wouldn't it be wonderful if those great old days would return?

Maybe but they were right for that point in humankind's spiritual progression and might be inappropriate now and in future.

Left Behind wrote:I don't think that the lack of interest in Modern Spiritualism in the US has much to do with opposition from the mainstream traditional churches. They are there, yes, in droves: but attendance is dropping.

I didn't suggest that any lack of interest in Spiritualism is down to opposition from mainstream religions and I wonder how many of their adherents are even aware of Spiritualism? I'd guess it's because Spiritualism and its teachings are rarely encountered.

Left Behind wrote:I think that the main problem is that our culture is so now-oriented, youth-oriented, and consumption and good times-oriented that people rarely give a thought to their own physical demise and when they do, they are self and culturally conditioned to turn their thoughts back away from the idea.

I think it's appropriate that in the first few decades of life we shouldn't be concerned with what happens after our departure from this world. I've often counselled young uns to get on with life and not give heir attention to matters of the spirit until their mature years. Then it likely becomes more important, I think.

Left Behind wrote:Who really cares if there's life after death or what that life will be like if you've conditioned yourself to avoid thinking that you're ever going to die in the first place?

I prefer that approach to the one where we've been conditioned to believe the Biblical version of death.

hiorta wrote:mac, Didn't the entire (industry?) begin with DIY? Local folk with gaslight or firelight, tangible Spirit contact and an unshakeable urge to continue to seek? The very real threat of arrest was never a deterrent to these folk.
Perhaps something was lost in trying to make it 'respectable'?
The Home Circle was and is indispensable.

Re 'DIY' members may be interested in: http://afterlifeforums.com/threads/self-guided-afterlife-connection-experiences.2133/

Take a look?

Left Behind wrote:I think that the main problem is that our culture is so now-oriented, youth-oriented, and consumption and good times-oriented that people rarely give a thought to their own physical demise and when they do, they are self and culturally conditioned to turn their thoughts back away from the idea.

I think it's appropriate that in the first few decades of life we shouldn't be concerned with what happens after our departure from this world.  I've often counselled young uns to get on with life and not give heir attention to matters of the spirit until their mature years.  Then it likely becomes more important, I think.

Left Behind wrote:  

I think that it's to be expected -- and healthy -- that young people be not AS interested in life after physical death as we older folks are. The problem, though, is that as the twig is bent, so's the tree inclined. If young people don't get some proper education in religious and spiritual matters when they ARE young, they are less like to turn to it as their own demise approaches.[/quote]

quote:  If young people don't get some proper education in religious and spiritual matters when they ARE young, they are less like to turn to it as their own demise approaches.

Yes I agree with this but unless that happens in primary/elementary school, and unless it includes ideas from our own religion/philosophy, then mainstream religious nonsense is all they're likely to hear.  I use the last word deliberately because I've listened to the nonsense taught in UK primary schools and I cringed. I was thankful that in delivering Special Needs support I was little involved with religious teaching.

I was comforted, though, that the children appeared as bored as the teachers, paid little attention to what they heard in the main and all were glad to get the prescribed sessions behind them.  

Perhaps it's better elsewhere in the world?

Religions avoiding speaking of Spirituality is the norm. Doctrinal messages are the preferred vehicle.

hiorta wrote:Religions avoiding speaking of Spirituality is the norm. Doctrinal messages are the preferred vehicle.

In my school the headteacher, also a friend, announced an initiative to encourage parents to come in and speak to the children about the religions they followed.  As well as my school role our daughter was a pupil there so I jumped in to start the ball rolling.  I can still remember her telling me it was only to be for parents with mainstream religious beliefs.  

She knew I was a Spiritualist because both our families had lost babies and we had discussed the loss with one another.  Despite sharing something so special Spiritualism wasn't seen as an appropriate religion to talk to other parents about.

When religion fears the light of Truth, what are they hiding from and why are they there?

hiorta wrote:When religion fears the light of Truth, what are they hiding from and why are they there?

Fear of the unknown accompanied by years of unchallenged conditioning? Maybe it's the nature of humankind and some are unable to rise above it, even those who wish they could?

Its a very interesting discussion, I suppose Aus is partway between the UK and USA. Vast distances wher you would find few people and only occasionally a mention of Spiritualism and a handful of Spiritualist Centres in big Cities. But, we have never had a central body, the nearest in history would have been the Victorian Spiritualist Union with about 14 churches at one time around Melbourne (but reaching to Ballarat and Bendigo). Now a very small organisation but surviving as teh oldest formal Union in the World. Ther is a loose association of Spirtualist Churched under the Christian banner with 40 members but thsi could encompass all types with some centres celebrating full moons.

In reality you will have no idea what each one may be like without going to find out and generally expect a very cross mix with predominantly flower reading, Psychism and New Age Ideas (pr pagan, wiccan, alien, asencion etc)


Somewher the philosophy and history of a once great movement is forgotten and, to be honest, a thinking person may well just walk awau shaking there heads. In fact it is most likely to be those mixed centres that draw the bigger numbers,

As people know, disconnected to thsi forum I am the leader of a centre that has always focused upon direct ediumship (Mental mediumship) not flowers and has also also followed a relatively strong focus on pghilosophy and history. Facebook page shows 1350 followers how many attend; on a very good day nearly 30 on an average day 14. I have been told we are in good company and even Somerset Place in Glasgow is struggling for numbers (a real shock).

In many ways I think Mac is right the time may have come and gone for Modern Spiritualism. Mediumship went into celebrity status with a disconnect to the churches (even those like Tony Stockwell and Colin Fry albeit they both remained connected to Spiritualism as a movement and the churches). The public saw the perform,ance same as Van Pragh, John Edwards et al. I doubt that pre Doris Stokes many people went to see a medium unless tehywere connected to Spiritualism in some way.

Now people are learning mediumship from others who are deliberately disconnected from or never in teh first place went to a Spirtualist Centre. Indeed I know several good mediums who were effectively driven from Centres through the atitudes they encountered. The courses are an investment to enable you to recover your costs by improved earning ability.

Yes we hang in and hope that something may attract people back but what will it be? There are a number of good mediums who are developing and have an interest in working for Spirit and teh Centres that will help. However it will only gain some credence when teh seemingly moribund central organisations take a well though out road show to the population with teh very best of mediumship (both in content and charismatic presentation) and well presented philosophy and history.

I'm interested in views about the conversations in the thread whose link I posted August 17. Will you guys take a look and let me know your reactions?

The Spiritualist movement eventually came into being following the events surrounding the Fox sisters; it was the actions of our unseen friends-in-spirit that set the ball rolling and then kept it rolling.  

Without a similar level of continued involvement by unseen discarnates the once widespread awareness of trans-dimensional communication may not occur again in our lifetimes.  Perhaps what we're seeing now is the outcome of those individuals pulling back from their former involvement?

We humans can do everything possible to raise awareness of the movement of Spiritualism, its philosophy and teachings but unless those in the world unseen also work with new mediums we'll have little new to offer.  And it may have to be something genuinely new and not traditional mediumship.

Is there any indication that's happening?

mac wrote:The Spiritualist movement eventually came into being following the events surrounding the Fox sisters; it was the actions of our unseen friends-in-spirit that set the ball rolling and then kept it rolling.  

Without a similar level of continued involvement by unseen discarnates the once widespread awareness of trans-dimensional communication may not occur again in our lifetimes.  Perhaps what we're seeing now is the outcome of those individuals pulling back from their former involvement?

We humans can do everything possible to raise awareness of the movement of Spiritualism, its philosophy and teachings but unless those in the world unseen also work with new mediums we'll have little new to offer.  And it may have to be something genuinely new and not traditional mediumship.

Is there any indication that's happening?

Maybe the discarnates are working through the near death phenomenon now, more so than through traditional mediumship?

mac wrote:quote:  If young people don't get some proper education in religious and spiritual matters when they ARE young, they are less like to turn to it as their own demise approaches.

Yes I agree with this but unless that happens in primary/elementary school, and unless it includes ideas from our own religion/philosophy, then mainstream religious nonsense is all they're likely to hear.  I use the last word deliberately because I've listened to the nonsense taught in UK primary schools and I cringed.  I was thankful that in delivering Special Needs support I was little involved with religious teaching.

I was comforted, though, that the children appeared as bored as the teachers, paid little attention to what they heard in the main and all were glad to get the prescribed sessions behind them.  

Perhaps it's better elsewhere in the world?

Mac, this touches on something else I read, just a few days ago. Someone was quoting Jurgen Ziewe (I've never read his works, but I intend to. He supposedly has had 40 years of out-of-body contacts with the spirit world, much like Swedenborg or AJ Davis).

Anyway, Ziewe was quoted to the effect that traditional religions serve an invaluable purpose by preparing their adherents for the expectation that there will be an afterlife. This causes the believer -- depending on his level of intensity of belief, I'd assume -- to enter a spirit world of his own expectations. From there, enlightened spirit entities can gradually guide him out of his illusions and into the truths about life in the world to come.

Monsignor Benson alluded to the same thing in The World Unseen series.

Ziewe says that the spirit world -- the zones closest to the earth plane -- are becoming in effect a replica of the worst aspects of our actual earth: that materialism (in both senses of the word) is making it harder for the discarnate to break free of the earth plane. They are unable to ascend to higher planes after discarnation, simply because they never conceived of such planes of existence while they were incarnate.

I personally fear that the increasing belief in reincarnation (due both to population increases in the Eastern countries and to an increased belief in the doctrine here in the West) may have the same effect.

Maybe there's more to the old adage "it's better to have any religion than no religion at all" than we realize.

Provided that religion teaches its adherents that they will ascend to a higher level of existence. The reincarnation crown may be doing no more good than the philosophical materialists, and the eat, drink and be merry crowd.

mac wrote:

hiorta wrote:mac, Didn't the entire (industry?) begin with DIY? Local folk with gaslight or firelight, tangible Spirit contact and an unshakeable urge to continue to seek? The very real threat of arrest was never a deterrent to these folk.
Perhaps something was lost in trying to make it 'respectable'?
The Home Circle was and is indispensable.

Re 'DIY' members may be interested in: http://afterlifeforums.com/threads/self-guided-afterlife-connection-experiences.2133/

Take a look?

I will.

But if it's about "trying to have an NDE or an OBE": I'll pass on having the experience. I love getting messages FROM mediums. I would love to BE a medium. but as far as my spirit leaving my body: unless it happens spontaneously (as when asleep, many believe), I'll stay inside this carcass until it's time to vacate it permanently!

Left Behind wrote:

mac wrote:The Spiritualist movement eventually came into being following the events surrounding the Fox sisters; it was the actions of our unseen friends-in-spirit that set the ball rolling and then kept it rolling.  

Without a similar level of continued involvement by unseen discarnates the once widespread awareness of trans-dimensional communication may not occur again in our lifetimes.  Perhaps what we're seeing now is the outcome of those individuals pulling back from their former involvement?

We humans can do everything possible to raise awareness of the movement of Spiritualism, its philosophy and teachings but unless those in the world unseen also work with new mediums we'll have little new to offer.  And it may have to be something genuinely new and not traditional mediumship.

Is there any indication that's happening?

Maybe the discarnates are working through the near death phenomenon now, more so than through traditional mediumship?

NDE and OBE are certainly grabbing the attention of others I 'speak' to elsewhere. They're a great lead-in to the subject of survival but without context there's a dearth of understanding of the bigger picture.