Why is there a Clash between the Tutors and the AFC

Mac wrote: It is all so tawdry and at stake one cannot ignore the presidents salary, which is between 60-70K per year. There is a lot for someone to lose other than the SNU.

Naturally an individual will fight to retain whatever their salary happens to be - wouldn't YOU?

   Meanwhile, good, dedicated and experience tutors are being ignored over their contractual concerns and other tutors being shoed into their long standing popular courses. One cannot help the cynicism surrounding the president getting the elections out the way first and securing her power and money.

Isn't that often the way in life?  Mebbes the constitution of the SNU needs reforming but that's like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas.  If we didn't know better we might think the pioneers would be turning in their graves!  Wink

We are 5 pages in and no one has mentioned that all these shenanigans iare going on within a Spiritualist Organisation, yes I hear a cry but its just humans being humans.

But Presidents are at the pinnacle of the largest Spiritualist Organisation in the World. They should live, breath, drink etc Spiritualism.

Not one of our Principles is in play here and by politicking ,punishing and rewarding people, cancelling tutors , in Bruton's case throwing paid employees onto the mercy of the Government Scheme for payouts (oh and trying to grab another companies assets i.e Psychic Press) , Jacobs has proveably caused emotional pain and harm to people on courses and fellow tutors, being exiled from the AFC and we have SNU Presidents & DC's that members and churches regard with fear. It is a wonderful catalogoe

They are acting like the worst examples of modern industry. Where does Spiritualism fit in. I have been a senior manager in industry and have always tried to reflect the principles of my belief, originally based on humanism but for nearly 40 years now adapted to Spiritualism. While working I have always tried to reflect this in my dealings with others and by behaving ethically.

These people don' even appear to be trying, and these are the best the SNU members can find to be president, it may appear the organisation is moribund. Yet there are many good people some great churches and many willing workers.

Lets just pick a few of the failures in these pages. Do we see any real Brotherhood of Man, do we see the use of Personal Responsibility. We see the denial of any idea that we may retribution or reward on return to Spirit. Hey they cannot believe they are going to just be welcomed back as heroes because they were a President of the SNU. Surely they must realise the expectation of their behaviour, whilst President, will be judged more highly than someone who just lived their life as well as they could.

I see the actual point of this thread got totally lost there. We have two, to everyone on here, totally anonymous people having a disagreement which seems to suggest, despite the history of the last two Presidents dealing very badly with people who oppose their will, that the individual should declare who they are and what they would do. It was a long debate which is difficult to follow but I will leave it in place because it is important to see the whole content.

We allow anonymity on her for a purpose so people can express their views, we have had to interfere vert rarely and only, normally, when the disagreements get abusive, as they have, especially when people come on using sevreal names and argue between them ( a purported well known physical medium loved that tactic but the IP addresses are a give away).

Unless the election can be stopped there are two choices bad and badder (excuse the grammar), it appears JW has played to the DC's and Churches in the last two years. My understanding is each church has 5 votes to the individuals1. It appears she has convinced these that things will be better under her. Bruton's history here is a bit coloured, anyone remember the Liverpool Church where the committee was ejected, almost the entire congregation left to a new independent church, the old one fell below the SNU's membership rules so the building was closed and the funds absorbed into the SNU trust (just one of several stories and a famous win for one church).

I hear he is a changed man since losing the Presidency but I think people are wary about Leopards being able to change spots.

It appears that had Jackie Wright had the sense to keep her AFC attack dog on the leash a little longer, so the tutor's problem came after the election, she would have won easily, It was a bad error on her part which has left a small gap that Bruton may squeeze through. It has also turned a spotlight on her behaviour which is hidden behind the very clever PR creation .

I think there is to much smoke and not enough fire to continue the attack on the go fund me issue. A not for profit does not mean you cannot make profits it just limits you in how the surplus is used. Equally a charity is always entitled to see funds, even if they have plenty, they are not expected to diminish there reserves to enable repairs. If people are drawn to donate I doubt teh Charity Commissioners will feel they should complain.

Its the misuse of funds they may be interested in, JW using funds which pay for the Marketing and PR she is getting through their work on her facebook page, paying lawyers to gag the 20 Tutors. In honesty all teh funds lost in the PN saga was a misuse of funds. Expenditure like this may well be beyond the powers of the NEC. If it were the trust could seek recompense from the individual NEC members, ther may also be fines and a ban of membership of boards etc.

I think what we can all notice is that the Presidential would be's seem to have suspended the relevance of the 7 Principles as a guide to their actions, words and campaigns. However, it appears to me the worst, current version of this, is the treatment of the Tutors and for that alone she deserves to lose.

I am lucky here, I dare say Bruton never forgave the Forum for its very active fight on PN and that JW will never forgive the forum for this. However, I we are not SNU and after all this I would strive very hard to stop our centre in Aus if it thought to associate with that body. Unlike Psychic News I am not reliant on PN being sold through the SNU centres, so in the midst of this schemozzle it will, I am sure, remain silent in case it is banned. More surprising is that JW has not put campaign adverts into it (paid for by the SNU) given the unusually virulent approach in this election.

Sadly Helen's ill health meant she never was able to come to the Spiritualist Centre I run. One of the real thinkers and a very good Spiritualist, Medium & Teacher. A great piece to listen to wonderful Helen and you do have a lot to share.

We are 5 pages in and no one has mentioned that all these shenanigans iare going on within a Spiritualist Organisation, yes I hear a cry but its just humans being humans.

quite so!

But Presidents are at the pinnacle of the largest Spiritualist Organisation in the World. They should live, breath, drink etc Spiritualism.

Oh, Jim - if only the last points were that simple! Oh, sure, it's the largest Spiritualist organisation but it's still insignificant other than for adherents to its principles and policies. Even the president is only a human being and few - if any - are without personal flaws. Maybe for a + 60K salary things ought to be better but come on - 60K in this day-and-age is still pretty small beer.

Not one of our Principles is in play here and by politicking ,punishing and rewarding people, cancelling tutors , in Bruton's case throwing paid employees onto the mercy of the Government Scheme for payouts (oh and trying to grab another companies assets i.e Psychic Press) , Jacobs has proveably caused emotional pain and harm to people on courses and fellow tutors, being exiled from the AFC and we have SNU Presidents & DC's that members and churches regard with fear. It is a wonderful catalogoe

Perhaps for all those reasons it's time the whole damned thing were closed down!

They are acting like the worst examples of modern industry.

Were it a Trades Union the membership would have more clout but it's nothing more than a loose association of earnest individuals trying their best to serve the spirit. I'm not sure whether the SNU's senior officers are doing that too, though.

Where does Spiritualism fit in.

That's a point I've also raised concerning the writings of the brand-new members.

I have been a senior manager in industry and have always tried to reflect the principles of my belief, originally based on humanism but for nearly 40 years now adapted to Spiritualism. While working I have always tried to reflect this in my dealings with others and by behaving ethically.

That's what I aspire to in myself, Jim, even though I expect I fall short at times.

These people don' even appear to be trying, and these are the best the SNU members can find to be president, it may appear the organisation is moribund. Yet there are many good people some great churches and many willing workers.

moribund? How many times have I said that, Jim? I fear I found Modern Spiritualism just as it was about to decline into oblivion and sad though it is I also fear its structure will gradually change from what you and I knew. Even though I wasn't linked to any specific locality I have always promoted what the Spiritualist church could offer seekers.

Lets just pick a few of the failures in these pages. Do we see any real Brotherhood of Man, do we see the use of Personal Responsibility. We see the denial of any idea that we may retribution or reward on return to Spirit. Hey they cannot believe they are going to just be welcomed back as heroes because they were a President of the SNU. Surely they must realise the expectation of their behaviour, whilst President, will be judged more highly than someone who just lived their life as well as they could.

Maybe those individuals have simply lost sight of the simple principles underpinning Modern Spiritualism? If so then it's a great shame.....

I didn't intend to re-visit this thread but Jim is owner and a principled individual I greatly respect.  I also agree with what he's said.  

I've just done my voting.....

macf wrote:I've just done my voting.....

Great Mac

Well in the vein of the title, I can't answer why there is a clash as I don't know. However, a source very close to the NEC, of the SNU has messaged me to say that for the umpteenth time, the NEC has just refused to mediate and it is now back with the solicitors. What a shame the goodwill to mediate appears to be lost. So until the details are known, I can report that mediation is off the table.

As this shabby business has been going on since February the possibility of mediation has - it's said - been raised and rejected umpteen times. Hoping for anything different to happen now is pie-in-the-sky and my guess is that those on the AFC / SNU side of the equation will tough it out. They do, after all, hold all the aces.....

notabigjump wrote:Well in the vein of the title, I can't answer why there is a clash as I don't know. However, a source very close to the NEC, of the SNU has messaged me to say that for the umpteenth time, the NEC has just refused to mediate and it is now back with the solicitors. What a shame the goodwill to mediate appears to be lost. So until the details are known, I can report that mediation is off the table.

Somehow we need to persuade students to make a temporary boycott of the AFC. Although given the number of reports I have of students leaving Paul's courses, unfinished before they end suffering emotional damage often in tears and tutors being abused its a wonder anyone wants to go there anyway, especially now he is course organiser. My understanding is there are issues with staff but gag orders everywhere. Now Su Wood is Tutor rep, Paul Jacobs Course organiser and Jackie Wright is the boss and those 3 are in total control of the AFC and as I understand it the best of friends., good luck making any complaints about what happens at the AFC if they win, courses dished out to mates and the quiescent (who will run them in fear that if they get it wrong they are OUT).

Not to confuse issues it has also come to my attention that This grouping have been labelling Helen DaVita's lovely, heartfelt video about the plight of the tutors and her thought about it, shown in a thread above, as HATE SPEECH.

One brave young man has popped his head up, you can read what he says here https://www.facebook.com/539810271/posts/10161297627120272/?mibextid=WC7FNe&rdid=AfoqJszv6zu9ZXRj

Everything he says is worth reading. However, in the context of what I wrote in the first paragraph I will pick out one section.

Jason wrote:But you can tell a lot about a person by the people they keep close by, and after a video released by Helen Divita was widely shared yesterday, the reply by one off our hierarchies leading figures was shocking!
They branded that video a HATE CRIME, which is frankly libellous, not only that it is incredibly ignorant…..for hate crimes are incredibly serious things aimed at attacking a minority for profound differences of race/faith/gender/sexuality! It is not a hate crime to say you lack faith in someone’s ability to do a job!! It may be if the speaker had said “she can’t do her job because she is a woman” but that would be ironic given the speaker was also a woman!

At first I thought the worst that would happen was my replies and others speaking against that claim would be deleted, they were…as expected, no room now for dissenters!

But it gets worse!!! And there is proof  and I have seen it, we have seen the messages and the screenshots are saved! This isn’t rumour, or gossip, that tutor off AFC, who so boldly called that video a hate crime…..then proceeded to privately contact students who had shared that video…expressing their surprise, their disappointment, how they were I quote “bit shocked to see you sharing hate speech”!

That should be seen for what it is HARASSMENT AND INTIMIDATION, it is overstepping the role of a tutor to the point of potential misconduct to interfere in the private life of students. If I had any confidence in the complaints procedure, I would urge people to complain, but seeing the names of those who sit on it now, it is a rigged committee, don’t waste your time!

This is what it means now to be in the THINKING MANS RELIGION…..you’re welcome so long as you THINK WHAT YOUR TOLD! If you question, if you even how sympathy with alternative views, be prepared to have a “quiet word” whispered in your ear, to toe the line or else!

Now arriving to me anonymously was the wonderful proof of his comments; I believ these are just two examples of many all deleted after posting but kept for re use.





That this Tutor, whose behaviour had him exiled from the AFC by David Bruton, a person that has a record of poor behaviour to students and tutors causing emotional harm which is known to many, does this level of abuse is astonishing. But then we should realise it is totally in keeping with what we know of him.

That he should be the senior Tutor at the AFC a confidante and best friend of the SNU President and the Tutor Rep., totally secure in his position if Jackie retains the presidency, is a fact that beggars belief.

Is this the behaviour of a man suited to be the head of an organisation set up to teach SPIRITUALIST MEDIUMS

from the SNU Individual Members Group Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/4521391887962728)

"The Spiritualists' National Union
 ·
We have become aware that there are individuals creating new/fake Facebook profiles and accounts with what appears to be the express purpose of spamming church, district and other Union pages with inflammatory and divisive comments and targeting particular individuals within the Union.
This has become notably pronounced over the past 24 hours.
We would advise those members, officers and committees who manage pages to be aware of this, and to be vigilant in reporting any such accounts and consider blocking them should they persist.
It is expressly against Facebook's terms of use to create new or secondary accounts for such purposes, and we have already reported the account(s) in question to Meta."

also (quote)
"Posting in this group has been temporarily paused
An admin paused new posts in this group. Only admins can post. Everyone in the group can comment and react to existing content."

interesting times

Admin wrote:
Is this the behaviour of a man suited to be the head of an organisation set up to teach SPIRITUALIST MEDIUMS

Whoever becomes the next president (most likely the current one if opinion is to be believed) would be very wise to surround themselves with people of a much higher calibre than this!

After trawling around to find the quoted pieces I also found (https://www.facebook.com/jason.d.rothwell) what's below - more power to your elbow Jason Dean Rothwell - brilliantly well said!

quote: "Jason Dean Rothwell
 ·
What if we were meant to find Spiritualism and then outgrow it?

I have been pondering and consulting with the unseen world for weeks now, as the high drama of one movement seems to be thrashing its way even through the independent spheres of Spiritualism!! In other circles, centres, independent churches the energy of dissolution and disintegration is on high!!  And so I asked spirit; Is this the death of Spiritualism?

Considering we have seen more disharmony, more politicking, more bullying and intimidation, more self-denial and stonewalling, more gaslighting than anyone can recall….surely this is it, the end off the road, spirituality all drained out of Spiritualism.

And then spirit gave me a thought off its own, what if those Pioneers who founded Spiritualism, and forged the Spiritualist Union were unaware that the spirit realms never intended for Spiritualism to be a long lasting project, but a birthing place, a safe space for people to express their ideas.

Those earlier minds, of the Spiritualist movement, those Pinoneers they brought with them their own religious leanings, hence the Lord’s Prayer worked its way into Spiritualism, chakras worked their way in, Theosophist principles and Hindu philosophy, Anglican hymns and Sunday schools!!
All the trappings of a religion, by those who semi-consciously were meant to be leaving religion behind!! But rightly change is scary and what is familiar is comforting, thus they brought their religions with them.

Spirit said to me, you were always meant to out grow Spiritualism, it was never meant to become what it has become, but what it has now done is become a filter! A filter through which those who seek truth must pass, a crucible in which you metal is tested, will you accept impurity or will you keep going beyond religiosity to embrace full spirituality!! By accepting Spiritualism you accept a higher truth, by staying in it you accept a truth….by leaving it behind and unfolding beyond it, you move toward THE TRUTH! A truth that spirit has been weaving amongst a new generation for decades now!!

I have said to both our current President and our Former President, there are two groups of people co-existing inside one religion…Spiritualists of the traditional view, and New-Age Spiritualists, I now wonder if that definition is wrong, and what is more apt is, the are those who name themselves Spiritualist and live the very depth off what it means, and place their spiritual unfoldment and the Universes before everything and then there are those who live what it means to be a Spiritualist, with as much loyalty to the religious institution as to the spirit.

Many now realise Spiritualism was not meant to simply take away your fear of death, it was meant to take away your fear of living!! That is what Spiritualism gave me…..the desire to live, it never took away my fear of death, for I have never had that, why fear what is certain to be!"

He is indeed a wise young man and I hope we hear much more from him

Given the apparent refusal to enter a process of mediation after having signed a non-disclosure agreement before notionally accepting a formal complaint from each of the tutors in question, what sanctions would they face anyway if they were to disclose what the new AFC contracts are expecting of them to continue working in the college?

By the look of things relationships have soured to the point the tutors may anyway never work in the AFC again.... Always assuming the college and its organising body survive much into the future.

mac wrote:Given the apparent refusal to enter a process of mediation after having signed a non-disclosure agreement before notionally accepting a formal complaint from each of the tutors in question, what sanctions would they face anyway if they were to disclose what the new AFC contracts are expecting of them to continue working in the college?  

By the look of things relationships have soured to the point the tutors may anyway never work in the AFC again....  Always assuming the college and its organising body survive much into the future.

My current sources tell me that after the NEC are refusing another request for mediation, an independent company specialising in employment disputes, is now commissioned. One hopes this will resolve the matter and the tutors can return to the college, under better conditions for all. Hopefully truly independent.

As for the state of the SNU - let's hope they read Jason's wisdom on the subject.

notabigjump wrote:He is indeed a wise young man and I hope we hear much more from him

hear, hear to that!

It's also reassuring for me personally to find - although I've learned to live with it - that I'm not the Jeremiah I often appear to be.

For a very long time now I've been getting the feeling that I found Modern Spiritualism as it was entering a slow decline. I didn't recognise it initially because I was swamped by everything new and revelatory for me but in the years that followed I began to have doubts. Not doubts about survival and everything that goes along with that notion but doubts about the way the Spiritualist movement presents it.

Perhaps what can be seen in the deep upset surrounding the AFC and the SNU are the death throes of a once vibrant movement?

notabigjump wrote:

mac wrote:Given the apparent refusal to enter a process of mediation after having signed a non-disclosure agreement before notionally accepting a formal complaint from each of the tutors in question, what sanctions would they face anyway if they were to disclose what the new AFC contracts are expecting of them to continue working in the college?  

By the look of things relationships have soured to the point the tutors may anyway never work in the AFC again....  Always assuming the college and its organising body survive much into the future.

My current sources tell me that after the NEC are refusing another request for mediation, an independent company specialising in employment disputes, is now commissioned. One hopes this will resolve the matter and the tutors can return to the college, under better conditions for all. Hopefully truly independent.

As for the state of the SNU - let's hope they read Jason's wisdom on the subject.

 It's all very well bringing in independent professional representation but even assuming its findings show unfairness or discrimination will it change the approach of individuals who are obviously intransigent?

edit/addition: Can those who run the show be made to behave fairly and reasonably now and in the future when plainly they are not individuals who treat others fairly and reasonably?

I loved that piece from Jason it is good to see a young man write like that.

Admin wrote:I loved that piece from Jason it is good to see a young man write like that.

Hear hear!

edit/addition: Can those who run the show be made to behave fairly and reasonably now and in the future when plainly they are not individuals who treat others fairly and reasonably?

mac wrote:

notabigjump wrote:

mac wrote:Given the apparent refusal to enter a process of mediation after having signed a non-disclosure agreement before notionally accepting a formal complaint from each of the tutors in question, what sanctions would they face anyway if they were to disclose what the new AFC contracts are expecting of them to continue working in the college?  

By the look of things relationships have soured to the point the tutors may anyway never work in the AFC again....  Always assuming the college and its organising body survive much into the future.

My current sources tell me that after the NEC are refusing another request for mediation, an independent company specialising in employment disputes, is now commissioned. One hopes this will resolve the matter and the tutors can return to the college, under better conditions for all. Hopefully truly independent.

As for the state of the SNU - let's hope they read Jason's wisdom on the subject.

 It's all very well bringing in independent professional representation but even assuming its findings show unfairness or discrimination will it change the approach of individuals who are obviously intransigent?  

edit/addition:  Can those who run the show be made to behave fairly and reasonably now and in the future when plainly they are not individuals who treat others fairly and reasonably?

It is probable that only recommendations will be made, so it is whether there is the will to implement. It could all be moot.

notabigjump wrote:

mac wrote:

notabigjump wrote:

mac wrote:Given the apparent refusal to enter a process of mediation after having signed a non-disclosure agreement before notionally accepting a formal complaint from each of the tutors in question, what sanctions would they face anyway if they were to disclose what the new AFC contracts are expecting of them to continue working in the college?  

By the look of things relationships have soured to the point the tutors may anyway never work in the AFC again....  Always assuming the college and its organising body survive much into the future.

My current sources tell me that after the NEC are refusing another request for mediation, an independent company specialising in employment disputes, is now commissioned. One hopes this will resolve the matter and the tutors can return to the college, under better conditions for all. Hopefully truly independent.

As for the state of the SNU - let's hope they read Jason's wisdom on the subject.

 It's all very well bringing in independent professional representation but even assuming its findings show unfairness or discrimination will it change the approach of individuals who are obviously intransigent?  

edit/addition:  Can those who run the show be made to behave fairly and reasonably now and in the future when plainly they are not individuals who treat others fairly and reasonably?

It is probable that only recommendations will be made, so it is whether there is the will to implement. It could all be moot.

Had I been the one doing what the wicked three have been up to and if I had their character, I'd've anticipated and expected the inevitable furore and been prepared to tough it out. They also have the resources of the Union they can use to fight off any attack on their authority and it appears there is nobody to prevent them doing just about whatever they choose.

If the best that can be achieved are recommendations then it makes more sense not to waste money hiring specialists to tell you that. Unless the membership - especially the churches - can be contacted and mobilised it looks inevitable that this unspiritual triumvirate will win out on all scores.

This is the basic problem it appears that when an SNU President is appointed they gain ultimate power. That should never be.