Beyond Spiritualism. www.cfpf.org/

I suspect that Silver Birch's observation that it is all down to motive in the end probably applies. Do I see my loved one suffer or help ease their pain? Who knows another's motive? I can't even work my own out most of the time.

My duck friend's spelled it out very simply, guided as we so often have been before by the words of the soul whose simple guidance covered such a situation.

Motive is all.

I would happily go along with the views of obiwan and mac, muii. The SB group, with its illustrious guide, covers complex issues with consistent Love and grace - and wisdom.

165 years ago there was an event that sparked global interest and created Modern Spiritualism. Likewise, skeptical scientists collected ectoplasm, apports, and other evidence and using the best scientific methodology and tools of the day concluded the evidence was real and not fraudulently manufactured or done through slight-of-hand magicians tricks.
There will always be people who have the proof but demand more and refuse to accept any of it; even if that evidence is a global event. So rather than try to convince those who refuse to believe, shouldn't Spiritualists be focusing on teaching those who are willing to accept but who are distracted by philosophies which parrot Spiritualism without understanding it or which twists Natural Laws like The Law of Attraction into The Law of Lazy Ownership and Unearned Manifestation (AKA: The Law of Attraction)?

To stay on subject though, has anyone ever wondered why the mediumship being offered today as evidence could be so degraded when the practitioners of Spiritualism are so much more enlightened than ever?

""There will always be people who have the proof but demand more ...." This is the way of the world.

Allow others to find and walk their own path - the only person you can improve is yourself.
As has been said - truly - 'All things work wisely and well'

Hello everyone,

This is a most interesting debate. From a personal angle I was a good friend of the leader of the Syston circle ( Barry Jeffrey and his wife Pat ) where Rita Goold sat. I have heard a number of criticisms of Rita, including one from a well respected physical medium who is a friend, and who still puzzles over his experiences !.

I am on the fence with this one. Barry stood by the pehnomena; I never witnessed it, and of course while Rita is still around she has not sat for a very long time I hear.

I have spoken to Mr Roll at length about his experiences, and he was bowled over when his dad materialised and spoke to him, and also to Arthur Findlay.

Allan Crossley also enthused about meeting his wife (materialised) on a number of occasions. He even told me she was in similar clothes as she wore on earth, and he has no doubts it was her.

As for Mr Rolls approach, I have to agree; its motivational in a sesne, but its getting us nowhere. I have come to realise, with some sadness that modern science sees much of what takes place in Spiritualism as a joke, and who can blame them with the quality of mediumship on offer?

I have a science background and have worked in this environment for many years prior to retirement; frequently with well esteemed professors.

Mr Pearson is regarded somewhat as a joke. He has not got the academic credentials unfortunately to play with the 'big hitters'. I think Mr Pearson has a first degree, and in truth needs to have been more involved at a higher ( dare I say PhD level ) to expound his theories.

This does not denigrate his achievements, its more a question of scientific credibility. We all know academic life is somewhat an exclusive club, where unfortunately you need to play by the rules...Not ideal, but its a fact of our lives.

However, perhaps this is me. To say that I am cynical these days of Spiritualism is an understatement. I wish it was not so, but I don't see much of a future in the mainstream movement.

LeroyC

Hi Leroy, once again you make good sense.

Even though I am currently running a Centre I am, like you and Mac, very uncertain as to the relevance of the current movement and the direction it is going in. Life is not made any easier by the fact that many of the currently successful celebrity psychics and mediums never came from the Spiritualist movement and as a result have no interest in promoting it.

Thank you for the comments. I tend to agree with those views as well! if Spiritualism is not doing the job and 'run its course' it matters not what continues the debate or provides the evidence. I always thought it would take up 'another form', as it certainly cannot make progress as it is.

I think we have a lot more to come from the examination of near death studies and origins of consciousness. I would like to see more coming from the EVP/ITC research, but I think for a number of years now its been riven with internal conflicts and has failed to make progreess in such an atmosphere of disharmony.

LeroyC wrote:Thank you for the comments. I tend to agree with those views as well! if Spiritualism is not doing the job and 'run its course' it matters not what continues the debate or provides the evidence. I always thought it would take up 'another form', as it certainly cannot make progress as it is.

I think we have a lot more to come from the examination of near death studies and origins of consciousness. I would like to see more coming from the EVP/ITC research, but I think for a number of years now its been riven with internal conflicts and has failed to make progreess in such an atmosphere of disharmony.

I've never seen the need for any religious connection with survival of physical death. For me it sometimes looks like building a religion around the concept of the telephone.

Aye obiwan, agreed entirely. Spiritualism, like other non-material ideas, tends to decline in folks attention when material well-being flourishes, or appears to.
Political parties in power and seeking re-election tend to manipulate public finances to give the impression that 'Jam Tomorrow' is only just around the corner. It is a field of life where deceit and dishonesty reigns.

Spiritualism, unless founded on deeper values, will waver at these times.

It is only in times of war, shortage and general hardship that the thoughts of many turn to these deeper values, unfortunately.
When the material sun shines and life becomes easier, the drive for knowledge softens.

Progress in spiritual terms takes a temporary back seat. As SB said, it is only in the storms of Life that the Soul can find itself, can awaken and set out on its eternal journey. It needn't be so, but in the nature of humanity this is what usually happens.

The advent of Spiritualism, born in oppression, faced with powerful theological opposition reinforced by civic and legal legions, was tough, but it survived, grew strong and saw its oppressors disappear one by one.
Now it has new challenges to face. It seems the easy times are coming to an end.
There is no longer a need to mimic the former ceremonies, or repeat theologies once so familiar to so many. It is time to move forward.
Spiritualism produced many fine people of great determination, character and ability which won the reason of those who were in need. It overcame mighty obstacles to do so, basically because those folk were linked to a much deeper reality.

Can - will - todays Spiritualists also rise to the new circumstances?

It does look that to do so, Mediums of even greater personal qualities and deeper development must arise. Materialism was always an opponent, but now the way has been cleared of the trappings of religion.
Raise Spiritual sights and all should be well.

There is plenty to investigate, But it does depend on the attitude of the investigator I suppose. I think in the past investigators were more willing to investigate with, rather than against.. Often it is said that the attitude of Mediums has changed which stops investigation, but I also think the attitude of the investigators has changed too.. Which stops the mediums coming forward.

alvittos wrote:There is plenty to investigate, But it does depend on the attitude of the investigator I suppose. I think in the past investigators were more willing to investigate with, rather than against.. Often it is said that the attitude of Mediums has changed which stops investigation, but I also think the attitude of the investigators has changed too.. Which stops the mediums coming forward.

Alvittos, do you have anything to contribute to this forum other than copying/pasting other people's posts?