Is Spiritualism becoming Spiritism, and Spiritism. . . ?

It seems as though the traditional distinctions between Spiritualism and Spiritism - besides the fact that Spiritualism was associated with English-speaking countries, and Spiritism with Latin ones - were that:

1) Spiritists believed in reincarnation: Spiritualists, not necessarily so, and most did not.

2) Spiritualists regarded their beliefs as a practice, and met in centers: Spiritualists as a religion, and met in churches.

Today, it seems, if you don't believe in reincarnation, you're in the minority camp of Spiritualism.

Similarly, it seems all the fashion among Spiritualists to demand that we "meet the needs of the new generation" by abandoning anything that smacks of traditional religious beliefs or framework.


At the same time, so much of Spiritist practice is reportedly becoming voodooistic.

Then you have the incursion into Spiritualism of: channelling, crystals, Reiki (whatever that is! ), tarot card reading, fortune telling. . .

. . . where do YOU think it's all going? And is any of this good?

Jim

Well having just checked in mirror and run a quick questionnare as follows......
Luxuriant Hair? No [ None]
Moustache [either gender]? No
Swarthy complexion? No [pasty grey]
Swiss Bank Account? No
Name ending in an 'ez' i or o? No
Belief in universal reincarnation? No [Some but very rare and then not compulsory]
Possession of very worried chickens? No
British ? Yes
.............. I'm definitely not a Spiritist.
Have a look at their tacky-slick propaganda vids on here... it's a cult,
You'd be as well advised joining the scientologists.
Nice thing about spiritualism is that we're so disparate,generally good natured and usually so disorganized . No spiritualist group worth the name could ever get their act together and come up with the sorts of cash these Spiritists employ to further their dodgy creed.
Like the old Fraud Squad detective said....
'Follow the money and you'll catch the villain'

Take your point about the other bits and bobs though Jim. We go in for all sorts in our independent cause that would be anathema to an old order SNU traditionalist. But Spiritism ! You have to draw the line somewhere.
If that's what folk want there's plenty of spiritist outfits ready to sign 'em up [please have your bank card details to hand].
Why settle for the benign muddle of spiritualism if what they want is something that tells them what to belive and how to believe in it?

Interesting. I had never heard of spiritism till I became a member of this forum. Still don't know quite what it is. Yesterday I was in the TS Bookshop buying a couple more Silver Birch books when I saw a book by Alan Kardak (sp ?). Maybe I should have purchased it.

I wonder what the differences are and how they really matter.

Are we going to go through the same demarcation disputes that the Christian churches have gone through over the years?

Surely the basic things are authentic mediumship, life after physical death and the philosophy of love and service. If people believe these things and come together to enable them to happen does it matter what they call themselves?

By the way - my latest Silver Birch book indicates that he did believe in reincarnation.

He also describes himself as human - on the progression trail. This fascinated me actually. How exciting it is that there will be such difference still. And the humanity ......

I thought it was so. In some of the trance talks I've listened to - the more informal ones - the 'humanity' of the spirit has come through. Our teacher edited one thing (in the later transcription) because she felt that the spirit did not really mean what came through - but two of us heard it and wondered. Three years on it makes sense.

It makes me realise once more that the principles are the most important things - the basic elements of faith - life beyond physical death and the importance of kindness. love and service.

It doesn't matter all that much what 'code' people follow as long as those basic things are there.

If Spiritualism accepts reincarnation, changes from being a religion to being a science, changes its meeting places from churches to study centers: then it's become old-time Spiritism.

At the same time, contemporary Spiritism seems to be becoming more of a religion: sometimes voodooistic, I've heard.

While contemporary Spiritualism is becoming more receptive to tarot, runes, fortune telling, purely psychic phenomena like telepathy and telekinesis. . . it's all becoming very hard to follow.

Maybe Spiritualists need to get back to their version of that old time religion?

Left Behind wrote:If Spiritualism accepts reincarnation, changes from being a religion to being a science, changes its meeting places from churches to study centers: then it's become old-time Spiritism.

At the same time, contemporary Spiritism seems to be becoming more of a religion: sometimes voodooistic, I've heard.

While contemporary Spiritualism is becoming more receptive to tarot, runes, fortune telling, purely psychic phenomena like telepathy and telekinesis. . . it's all becoming very hard to follow.

Maybe Spiritualists need to get back to their version of that old time religion?

I had a brief look at Wikipedia to get a definition of 'spiritism'. It seem quite different in some fundamental ways, even from a very superficial point of understanding. It seems that spiritists don't believe in the progress towards greater enlightenment to the same extent as spiritualists. And there are significant differences in the way both types of practice and belief are institutionalised. So it is not as simple as my first response to you indicated.

I just don't know, Jim (I think that is your real name )

Part of me believes that the spiritualism of the US and the UK in the late 19th century and the 20th century is dying out. I've had to read about the Spiritualism of those times. My own experience of Spiritualist churches has been quite negative, with one or two exceptions, but even the relatively good ones are struggling here.

The world is very different from the world in the times when Spiritualism flourished. Things in the UK seem to be reasonably all right, however. I have no idea about the US.

I would not be too worried about practices such as tarot, runes and the like creeping in. These are simply psychic and spiritual tools, although they both have their roots in fairly old practices. Both of these tools are far older than conventional Spiritualism, actually.

Perhaps we each have to find places that are relevant to our needs and our times and make the most of what we find.

I'm not saying anything new in this but my feeling is that Modern Spiritualism has run its course. Maybe something similar will emerge to replace it, maybe not....

I feel privileged to have experienced Spiritualism in its late-heyday but I'm sad that (I think) it's probably nearly finished.

Any differences between Spiritism and Modern Spiritualism are largely irrelevant as I see 'em.

mac wrote:
Any differences between Spiritism and Modern Spiritualism are largely irrelevant as I see 'em.

Maybe the differences are academic. The Wikipedia article said that the idea of progression to a higher state of being is not part of Spiritism and I think that is a difference. I like to think that we can be better than we are.

Spiritualism doesn't actually say that. Spirit communicators like Ranadahn, Chan and Silver Birch do, however. I'm pinning some considerable hope on it too

Have a look at post on Welcome strand. Should have started a new Topic but can't cut and paste on Kindle.
Spiritualism is about progress both here and beyond. Evolution if you must.
Spiritism posits that all progress happens on this side.
Time after flippin' time.
Thery have some sort of civil service allocating poor souls 'back' to learn lessons.
Very French And rather Roman Catholic. 'Their' astral civil service knows best what is good for 'you'!
That Astral City clip gives a taste of where they'e coming from. Very 'Brave New World', dare one suggest almost Fascistic?

"Spiritualism is about progress both here and beyond. Evolution if you must.
Spiritism posits that all progress happens on this side."

agreed

In Kardec's 'The Spirits Book' the issue of spiritual progress taking place through repeated incarnations is a recurrent theme and that greatly shaped my early thinking....

As my sources of information broadened in my 'early days' I learned an alternative take on spiritual development through the teachings of Silver Birch and others.

I now see a far less prescriptive principle applies.

I like our benevolent, loosey goosey but ultimately optimistic 'muddle'.
Never trusted those slick coves who claim to have all the right answers [book and DVD on sale in the foyer. Special discount for this workshop only].
Colleague calls that.... 'School of Hay House'.

I don't know. . . maybe I'm just a more dogmatic person by nature and by upbringing than most people are nowadays.

But it seems to me that Spiritualism has first blurred the distinctions between it and old-time Spiritism, by jumping aboard the reincarnationist bandwagon with both feet, and by rejecting the idea of churches: and is now doing the same thing with tarot and telemetry and fortune telling and all that other stuff.

And maybe it's just because I'm a nostalgic newbie, yearing for a glorious past that he never knew. . . but it seems that we need to get back to our roots, our fundamentals. . . or risk dying out, as just another ingredient - along with crystals, yoga, and past-lives regression therapy - in some sort of New Age, mock-Eastern spiritual stew.

Vegan, of course.

Jim

Nostalgia aint what it used to be Jim.
Dad was a two bob medium so too many seances of a wet Sunday afternoon in my past.
As a kid in the fifties spiritualism seemed to me to be very gloomy but then
children are easily bored.
Much more lively later though thank goodness. We had fabulous Lyceum outings to the seaside.
I don't know of any church with a kids Lycrum today.

Thats a tough gig these days Katy. Anyone running one here would have to have a police check and that costs money. Most of the people bringing their children would insist they were highly gifted "Indigo's". We came close to trying one but the person involved, a teacher with natural mediumship skills, had a very nasty experience with David Thompson at a mental mediumship workshop he ran in Adelaide and walked away for a bit.

Maybe we need to record a version of "Gimme that Old Time Religion", using Spiritualist lyrics.

If we had some good physical mediums then Spirit could provide the musical support Jim

Dobbin Ploy proudly presents...
THE TRAVELLING DINGLEBERRIES
In Concert....

On trumpet Steve Milligan.
Percussion The Fox Sisters.
Tambourine, Castanets and Banjo The Davenport Brothers
Accordion D. D. Hume
Support act. Conjuring and illusion from those wizards of the musical spoons ....
The dark show physical combo also known .as....
The Black and No Light Minstrels... Who will accompany community singing during the interval.
Seats at all prices ..
Please note that an additional ticket charge of £50 is payable by those patrons attending the post concert one act play. This is a new and exciting 'pooky seance themed' melodrama written by the producers and entitled 'A cabinet of curiosities' . Attenders at this incredible spectacle are respectfully requested by the management to leave all credulity in the foyer prior to taking their seats. [Cash only. No cheques or cards. We regret to inform that the receipt book has been mislaid. If you require proof of attendance, please whistle].
Dark and No Light Minstrels plc reserves the right to limit admission to this performance.

Dobbin Ploy proudly presents...
THE TRAVELLING DINGLEBERRIES
In Concert....

On trumpet Steve Milligan.
Percussion The Fox Sisters.
Tambourine, Castanets and Banjo The Davenport Brothers
Accordion D. D. Hume
Support act. Conjuring and illusion from those wizards of the musical spoons ....
The dark show physical combo also known .as....
The Black and No Light Minstrels... Who will accompany community singing during the interval.
Seats at all prices ..
Please note that an additional ticket charge of £50 is payable by those patrons attending the post concert one act play. This is a new and exciting 'pooky seance themed' melodrama written by the producers and entitled 'A cabinet of curiosities' . Attenders at this incredible spectacle are respectfully requested by the management to leave all credulity in the foyer prior to taking their seats. [Cash only. No cheques or cards. We regret to inform that the receipt book has been mislaid. If you require proof of attendance, please whistle].
Dark and No Light Minstrels plc reserves the right to limit admission to this performance.

A pooky seance being one without the S for Spirit in it.

Jim

There are some good songs in the SNU hymnbook.
One chap reently demming at ours had us sing Morecambe & Wise (UK TV Comedy duo now both passed) theme tune
'Bring me Sunshine' and you know, it really worked.
Sounds tacky but it's got lovely lyrics when you think about them.

Bring me sunshine in your smile
Bring me laughter all the while
In this world where we live
there should be more happiness
So much joy you can give
for each brand new bright tomorrow
etc................

Bring me Sunshine, in your smile,
Bring me Laughter, all the while,
In this world where we live, there should be more happiness,
So much joy you can give, to each brand new bright tomorrow.

Make me happy, through the years,
Never bring me, any tears,
Let your arms be as warm as the sun from up above,
Bring me fun, bring me sunshine, bring me love.

Bring me Sunshine, in your eyes,
Bring me rainbows, from the skies,
Life's too short to be spent having anything but fun,
We can be so content, if we gather little sunbeams.

Be light-hearted, all day long,
Keep me singing, happy songs,
Let your arms be as warm as the sun from up above,
Bring me fun, bring me sunshine, bring me love.

I think that reincarnation is accepted widely among Spiritualists in Oregon and Washington. I personally regularly read the Spiritist Codifice books (The Gospel According to Spiritism et al). BUT, I don't think one can judge early Spiritism and Alan Kardec (the Father of Spiritism and the author via the spirits of the Spiritist codifice books) by what modern Spiritism is, or is becoming. But, I prefer Spiritualism over Spiritism, more because of its structure, appearence and practices than over any differences in belief (which I see little difference in belief between the two). I agree with KatyKing that Spiritism is kind of cultic.... at least the Spiritism I see on the web (there are no Spiritist Centers in our area) I like the Christian attitude of Spiritualism. I like the little Church congregations, the Gospel singing and all that Spiritualism in the Pacific Northwest offers. Modern Day Spiritism kind of scares me, to tell you the truth.... at least the way it's organized.