rare audio of Albert Helen Duncan's guide +pictures

[quote="zerdini"]

Azur wrote:

zerdini wrote:

Azur wrote:

Azur wrote:

zerdini wrote:

Admin wrote:Thanks Z I had a feeling she would have a strong accent which is virtualy impossible to disguise

It is reported by those who sat with Helen Duncan,that Albert spoke with an 'Oxford' accent.

Interestingly, my friend, Mona, who had a strong Scottish accent, when entranced by her Austrian Guide lost all trace of her Scottish accent - the guide occasionally spoke in German at the end of the trance lecture.

Thats amazing z ! Did Mona's physicality change when she was entranced by him. I believe if I am right, Mona would walk around when entranced.

I read also somewhere she did a demonstration at the London Spiritual Mission some years ago.

She often changed physically depending which guide entranced her.

At one church in Scotland while entranced the guide walked her down a spiral staircase.

She did demonstrate at a number of different churches throughout the UK as well as at the ISF conferences.

Thats fantastic, don't think i've ever heard about another medium were the voices could be heard in daylight whilst they were demonstrating in public.

You are very lucky to have known her z, she's a very interesting medium.

It was through her mediumship that I was introduced to Spiritualism more than fifty years ago. Her husband was a psychologist.

I have never lost touch with them and they invariably communicate when circumstances make it possible.

Thats wonderful z, Her husband was Eben I read that in your article. I'd say her guides gave outstanding evidence during demonstrations. If only we had medium's like Mona nowadays.

Roy Stemman said that when he seen Mona demonstrate he could hear what sounded like a high pitched whistle, this was said to be the voices speaking to Mona, then she would convey to the audience what she heard.

That is not quite correct, Azur.

Mona was entranced while giving messages. Her guide repeated what the voices were saying.

In her meetings we were often able to hear what the voices were saying e.g. very often when relaying a messgae to parents from their children we heard them saying 'hello mummy' or 'hello daddy'.

In private sittings the voices were often louder and clearer as I can testify.

zerdini wrote:That is not quite correct, Azur.

Mona was entranced while giving messages. Her guide repeated what the voices were saying.

In her meetings we were often able to hear what the voices were saying e.g. very often when relaying a messgae to parents from their children we heard them saying 'hello mummy' or 'hello daddy'.

In private sittings the voices were often louder and clearer as I can testify.

Sorry for the misunderstanding z.

I know we have had some great direct voice medium's, but I think Mona's direct voice gift was different considering she would demonstrate in light and walk about entranced, maybe I am wrong but I don't think any other medium worked that way.

If the people were hearing the voices as you said e.g. 'hello mummy' or 'hello daddy' would there have been a voice box built by the guides for this form of mediumship, i'd imagine so if the audience could hear what the spirit was saying to the controlling guide.

Mona was also a fine trance healer judging on your article you wrote about her, which was excellent.

I am still amazed she never considered writing a book, I hope her work won't get lost with time. That would be sad.

Azur wrote:

zerdini wrote:That is not quite correct, Azur.

Mona was entranced while giving messages. Her guide repeated what the voices were saying.

In her meetings we were often able to hear what the voices were saying e.g. very often when relaying a messgae to parents from their children we heard them saying 'hello mummy' or 'hello daddy'.

In private sittings the voices were often louder and clearer as I can testify.

Sorry for the misunderstanding z.

I know we have had some great direct voice medium's, but I think Mona's direct voice gift was different considering she would demonstrate in light and walk about entranced, maybe I am wrong but I don't think any other medium worked that way.

If the people were hearing the voices as you said e.g. 'hello mummy' or 'hello daddy' would there have been a voice box built by the guides for this form of mediumship, i'd imagine so if the audience could hear what the spirit was saying to the controlling guide.

Mona was also a fine trance healer judging on your article you wrote about her, which was excellent.

I am still amazed she never considered writing a book, I hope her work won't get lost with time. That would be sad.

I believe her mediumship was unique.

Her husband intended to write a book about her mediumship but somehow never got round to it. It is correct that she had a voice box built by her guides. In many demonstrations I sat on one side of her and her husband on the other side so we were in privileged positions to hear the voices very clearly.

She was a fine healer in or out of trance and trained many to follow in her footsteps.

I think Z that mediumship like this is unique and vital. Eric Hatton's book talks about the problems where the mind of the medium overrides Spirits efforts.

I truly believe that this is the case, it is time that people copied the earlier Mediums once they were certain in the control they allow Spirit to take charge. However for too many of us that is a tough call, I can be a medium but on My terms.

I think I remember Mickey saying that even in Leslie Flint's mediumship sometimes Leslie's own thinking affected it.

obiwan wrote:I think I remember Mickey saying that even in Leslie Flint's mediumship sometimes Leslie's own thinking affected it.

The conscious mind's effect can be minimised but not totally obliterated.

I agree the medium can infuence what is being said. Especially today it happens alot more so than the early days when the medium was properly developed and Spirit-trained.

There are alot of so-called trance mediums/healers today who say that they are in a total unconscious state during entrancement, personally I think this situation is extremely rare nowadays.

I believe they are in a genuine trance state but not the deep trance that was assoicated with trance mediums of the past, such as Horace Hambling, Maurice Barbanell, Estelle Roberts and so on.

Today they seem more to be working in altered states were leaks from the medium's mind can affect what is being said.

Azur wrote:I agree the medium can infuence what is being said. Especially today it happens alot more so than the early days when the medium was properly developed and Spirit-trained.

There are alot of so-called trance mediums/healers today who say that they are in a total unconscious state during entrancement, personally I think this situation is extremely rare nowadays.

I believe they are in a genuine trance state but not the deep trance that was assoicated with trance mediums of the past, such as Horace Hambling, Maurice Barbanell, Estelle Roberts and so on.

Today they seem more to be working in altered states were leaks from the medium's mind can affect what is being said.

If a medium is interested in the subject under discussion his/her conscious mind can interfere in the communication unless the guide is aware of interference and can take the medium into a deeper state of trance.

zerdini wrote:

Azur wrote:I agree the medium can infuence what is being said. Especially today it happens alot more so than the early days when the medium was properly developed and Spirit-trained.

There are alot of so-called trance mediums/healers today who say that they are in a total unconscious state during entrancement, personally I think this situation is extremely rare nowadays.

I believe they are in a genuine trance state but not the deep trance that was assoicated with trance mediums of the past, such as Horace Hambling, Maurice Barbanell, Estelle Roberts and so on.

Today they seem more to be working in altered states were leaks from the medium's mind can affect what is being said.

If a medium is interested in the subject under discussion his/her conscious mind can interfere in the communication unless the guide is aware of interference and can take the medium into a deeper state of trance.

I agree with that !!

Presumably it was more difficult in Leslie Flint's case as he wasn't in trance as a rule?

obiwan wrote:Presumably it was more difficult in Leslie Flint's case as he wasn't in trance as a rule?

True, although Mickey told me that they would have preferred Leslie to be in trance.

Leslie began his direct voice mediumship in trance but wanted to be aware of what was being said so he was, over a period of time, gradually brought to a state in which he could take part in the seances.

Admin wrote:I think Z that mediumship like this is unique and vital. Eric Hatton's book talks about the problems where the mind of the medium overrides Spirits efforts.

I truly believe that this is the case, it is time that people copied the earlier Mediums once they were certain in the control they allow Spirit to take charge. However for too many of us that is a tough call, I can be a medium but on My terms.

Hi Z,

Was reading through your article again, and you state: Her guide often used African words which when roughly translated meant 'I'm sorry I didn't quite catch that' or 'Give it to me again' which illustrates the difficulty communicators have of getting an accurate message across. Was Mona's Zulu guide responsible for trance clairvoyance/clairaudience when demonstrating before large audiences, it's amazing to think that his voice could acutally be heard.

I also read that each guide had there characteristic personality, which you got to know all thirteen guides who specialised in a certain aspect of her mediumship, how interesting that must have been for you.

Did Mona develop her mediumship while living in Scotland, or was it developed after meeting Mr van Der Watt.

Azur wrote:

Admin wrote:I think Z that mediumship like this is unique and vital. Eric Hatton's book talks about the problems where the mind of the medium overrides Spirits efforts.

I truly believe that this is the case, it is time that people copied the earlier Mediums once they were certain in the control they allow Spirit to take charge. However for too many of us that is a tough call, I can be a medium but on My terms.

Hi Z,

Was reading through your article again, and you state: Her guide often used African words which when roughly translated meant 'I'm sorry I didn't quite catch that' or 'Give it to me again' which illustrates the difficulty communicators have of getting an accurate message across. Was Mona's Zulu guide responsible for trance clairvoyance/clairaudience when demonstrating before large audiences, it's amazing to think that his voice could acutally be heard.

I also read that each guide had there characteristic personality, which you got to know all thirteen guides who specialised in a certain aspect of her mediumship, how interesti he saw mona demonstrateng that must have been for you.

Did Mona develop her mediumship while living in Scotland, or was it developed after meeting Mr van Der Watt.

Mona's mediumship was developed in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Her husband-to-be received a number of messages while travelling through England that he would meet a medium who would become his wife. When he reached Edinburgh he saw her demonstrate and realised that this was the woman the spirit world had been referring to.

They married and moved to South Africa which is where I came across them - but that's another story.

Was Mona's Zulu guide responsible for trance clairvoyance/clairaudience when demonstrating before large audiences,

Yes he was although occasionally her Red Indian guide also gave clairvoyance.

Yes it was interesting, Azur, although I didn't fully appreciate it at the time. I thought all mediums were like her!

Thanks z,

If I had a choice to go back in time and witness a demonstration of any medium, I think I would pick Mona van Der Watt.

I know we had Alec Harris, Mrs Duncan, Leslie Flint whom you'd also the pleasure of meeting but for me it would have to be Mona. From the lttle I know of her work, I find it fascinating.

Please continue to write more about her z.

Thanks again!

I can assure those reading about Helen Duncan she was a genuine medium. She had a broad Scot's accent which was clearly distinctive from Albert. I am very fortunate that I have letters from people who sat with her along with the Home Office Records. All the letters I have say she was a genuine. Anyone who has read the trial can see how many witness's came forward on her behalf.

maggieh wrote:I can assure those reading about Helen Duncan she was a genuine medium. She had a broad Scot's accent which was clearly distinctive from Albert. I am very fortunate that I have letters from people who sat with her along with the Home Office Records. All the letters I have say she was a genuine. Anyone who has read the trial can see how many witness's came forward on her behalf.

I don't think anyone on this forum is doubting her mediumship, Maggie.

There are a number of articles on the physical mediumship thread which support her mediumship.

I believe that people in this forum believe Helen Duncan to be genuine. I should state that I am her granddaughter so I have years of research on my grandma and have access to more records than the general public.

maggieh wrote:I believe that people in this forum believe Helen Duncan to be genuine. I should state that I am her granddaughter so I have years of research on my grandma and have access to more records than the general public.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to write an article for this forum. It would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Z

Hello maggieh there was a lady from Cumbria and a group of freinds attended my home group did you get the message and is their any feed back L&L Jock McArthur

Z, I am not a writer although I will take it under consideration. I am in the process of developing a website on my grandma and will gladly post the site when I get it up and running.

Hi Jock,
No I didn't get the message. If you want to share it with me I would like that. I might know who it was that attended from Cumbria.

maggieh wrote:Z, I am not a writer although I will take it under consideration. I am in the process of developing a website on my grandma and will gladly post the site when I get it up and running.

Thanks and look forward to seeing it.

Z

The Helen Duncan story is very interesting. I have read quite a bit about her however some information on here from someone who knew her and had witnessed her demonstrations would be well worth reading.

Welcome Maggie we are delighted to have you on the forum