whither - wither? - Modern Spiritualism

mac wrote:Recent conversations revolving around the role of the union for Spiritualists has found me questioning whether I see the movement having any importance or significance in today's world.  And whether it has any real future given the way things are in the movement right now, autumn 2024, following a torrid summer of upset, unrest and acrimony in the Union.

In case anyone questions my position, I AM a Spiritualist and I have been one for 40 years, small beer I concede compared with many other individuals.  I expect I will die a Spiritualist but who knows where the future will lead?  For some time now, though, I've been questioning in my mind and also out loud what being a Spiritualist means in practice.  For example one might first ask if I am even "spiritual", whatever that means!  I do know that I see just about everything in life through a filter created by what I've learned during my spiritual journey thus far.

But what of Modern Spiritualism itself, the organisation, movement, religion, philosophy, science or whatever??  My feelings are crystal-clear about certain aspects:  I don't do church, I won't do Divine Service and I find prayer and requests for scatter-gun spirit healing formulaic and pointless.  I'm not comfortable with a fair-few of the so-called Seven Principles although I do get why they will have to remain in place.  Yet I am no less a Spiritualist for all that - whatever anyone else may feel.    

In respect of what I asked in this thread's title, though, I do question where Modern Spiritualism is in 2024 and where it will be in the next few years.  And does it even have a future?

It will drag on but you have outgrown it. I have refused to even call myself a Spiritualist for at least 20 years. No disrespect to the title but the only word that ends in “ist” that I can own to is realist. That does not mean I am not engaged with Spirit. I am probably more aware of Spirit in Everything now than I used to be.

I have found some great things and some appalling things in recent events.

Admin wrote:I have found some great things and some appalling things in recent events.

I haven't found anything to warm my heart in recent events I'm afraid except for the fact that people are questioning more and learning to value and trust their own reaction to behaviours.

I have often been shocked by what was said in the past few months, shocked to the degree I withdrew rather than be associated at all with some remarks. I don't recall anything uplifting.

Just maybe, though, it will lead to individuals thinking for themselves rather than toeing the line although I'm not especially optimistic about that.

Maybe I have outgrown some of it.....  

As for being an "...ist" I've tended recently to refer to myself as a Modern Spiritualist in an attempt to distance myself from the vague, nebulous word 'spiritualist'.  

In my early times, when I was engaged in learning as much as I could, I stopped saying I was a 'Spiritualist' (as in Modern Spiritualism) because I felt it "put me in a box" and because I felt I was rather more than only that.  Also - even very early on - because I was uncomfortable about the things I've mentioned above.  But after a short time I realised there wasn't a more suitable descriptor and much of the teaching and guidance found around Spiritualist teaching actually DID feel comfortable.  

So unlike janhar I stopped calling myself "a Spiritualist" early on only to return to describing myself that way again quite shortly after.

Yes I can see the sense of that. I have to confess it is wearing when people call me a Spiritualist and I then have to say “well no actually I am not” followed by trying to explain that a medium or person who goes to Spiritualists meetings  does not mean they belong to the religion of Spiritualism etc etc …and as their eyes glaze over I say in my head “oh just beam me up Scottie get me out of here”. I am bored hearing myself say it all so now hope people will not bring the subject up. I still cannot do it though…..I cannot have a label.

I have no concerns about being labelled a Spiritualist but I often say that's not the only thing I am.

 In past times I've been asked to define what a Spiritualist is but I replied that definitions are for dictionaries and definitions reflect the way words are used, something that may change over time.  But I've heard others say they don't like being labelled and I totally respect that's how they feel.

I think it's understandable though that folk would assume those who regularly visit a Spiritualist church likely are Spiritualists.  By contrast I suppose I would grow bored of explaining that even though I don't do church (and all the rest) I am nonetheless a Spiritualist.  Maybe church-going, hymn-singing, love-and-lighting, Divine Service attenders wouldn't see me as a Spiritualist though - I don't know what label I would attract! LOL

You could call yourself Spiritual Philosophiser and afterlife investigator? Now there’s a conversation starter (or stopper).
I think I will stick to “no religion”.

….I do not do church either.

Oh I try not to tell anyone that I'm anything most times and your descriptors are way ott for me.    

I expect I'll just have to accept being called a spiritualist rather than a Modern Spiritualist and you'll just have to put up with folk thinking you're a Spiritualist 'cos you sometimes go to a Spiritualist location.  I don't suppose either of us will really be much affected whatever we're called.  

Very true.

Mac I have tried to reply to your message and it is saying you do not wish to receive messages. Will send you a FB friend request so you can use FB messenger if you prefer. (If I can find your profile I spotted it the other day on someone else's page).

When I was younger before I found Spiritualism even existed I would always ask God to help the person and all concerned in passing ambulances/accidents etc. It was listening to a medium say that saying prayers for someone in a passing ambulance was just an emotional reaction so I stopped sending prayers. In the fullness of time I began to think if a loved one or even myself was in an ambulance I would certainly appreciated any thought and prayers whether the knew me or them or not, so I continued asking Spirit to give healing and help them

Just another thought

I've just had a thought out of the blue.
Unfortunately, these thoughts cause arguments etc. Anyway, I thought l'd share it on here only because hopefully it can be a discussion and a putting of heads together so all of us have more understanding. Here we go (wait for it
Your religion and faith is between you and God and no one else. This connection involves no one else not your minister, vicar, pastor or priest.
I'm now hiding and waiting for it
Have a blessed day full of love. Keep safe no matter wherever you live in the world

CCONLEY wrote:When I was younger before I found Spiritualism even existed I would always ask God to help the person and all concerned in passing ambulances/accidents etc.    It was listening to a medium say that saying prayers for someone in a passing ambulance was just an emotional reaction so I stopped sending prayers.   In the fullness of time I began to think if a loved one or even myself was in an ambulance I would certainly appreciated any thought and prayers whether the knew me or them or not, so I continued asking Spirit to give healing and help them

Just another thought

I've just had a thought out of the blue.
Unfortunately, these thoughts cause arguments etc. Anyway, I thought l'd share it on here only because hopefully it can be a discussion and a putting of heads together so all of us have more understanding. Here we go (wait for it
Your religion and faith is between you and God and no one else. This connection involves no one else not your minister, vicar, pastor or priest.
I'm now hiding and waiting for it
Have a blessed day full of love. Keep safe no matter wherever you live in the world

I have always known that so don't apologise because I think a lot of people would agree with you. However, if you choose to belong to a particular religion I think your minister would be entitled to question anything you said that did not reflect the views of that religion. This is why I don't belong to one.

Prayers can never hurt but they don't necessarily have any practical value - Silver Birch gave his thoughts on that matter. We don't need to ask our friends in the so-called world of the spirit to intercede because those of most relevance will already know the circumstances. It may make an individual feel better to ask for spirit help for someone else but that's all.

As for religions or faiths well they're (hu)man-made anyway and have little to do with The Great Spirit, the one often called God. Should one decide to follow a particular faith, religion or belief it's purely personal choice whether one decides also to be governed by its rules and its clergy. And whether the employee of a religion or faith to is also allowed to question or challenge what one says or believes is up to the individual concerned.

…..and if you don‘t follow the rules you are hardly likely to care about the opinion of whoever lays the rules down. This raises other questions but I am not going to go there.

As to prayer, I believe it does sometimes create an intervention if there is good reason for it and it is possible, so I say just keep on praying.  Mostly though I feel that empathy and sympathy are another way to pray as they are a component of love for our fellow humans and animals too. Even for nature. So I think to send a thought of that nature to a passing ambulance or anybody else in the world is a beautiful thing and always helps the individuals concerned on some level.

Silver Birch spoke about prayer and his guidance on it appeals to my reason.

Of course prayer can never do harm and of course sincere prayer may bring about beneficial changes so there's no reason to avoid it. But this curmudgeon looks for evidence - where it's there I accept but when it's not.... Let's just say I consider it "not proven".

I do think it could be easy to mislead oneself.

Considering Spiritualism - in the thread's title - I have all too often been appalled by words trotted out as prayers prior to a seance/demonstration.  Similarly in entreaties for healing that range from a single individual - personal and moving - through to a blanket call for this physical world and all its human and animal inhabitants.  

It's no doubt well meant but this curmudgeon cringes it's delivered as prayer.

I agree with you on that. Not what I was talking about but very true.

CCONLEY wrote:When I was younger before I found Spiritualism even existed I would always ask God to help the person and all concerned in passing ambulances/accidents etc.    It was listening to a medium say that saying prayers for someone in a passing ambulance was just an emotional reaction so I stopped sending prayers.   In the fullness of time I began to think if a loved one or even myself was in an ambulance I would certainly appreciated any thought and prayers whether the knew me or them or not, so I continued asking Spirit to give healing and help them
Just another thought

I've just had a thought out of the blue.
Unfortunately, these thoughts cause arguments etc. Anyway, I thought l'd share it on here only because hopefully it can be a discussion and a putting of heads together so all of us have more understanding. Here we go (wait for it
Your religion and faith is between you and God and no one else. This connection involves no one else not your minister, vicar, pastor or priest.
I'm now hiding and waiting for it
Have a blessed day full of love. Keep safe no matter wherever you live in the world

Both are interesting and I believe prayer or focused meditation does work so I have my own difference of agreement. As a dowser I am aware of the energies flowing around without even Spirit being involved. If a group of people round a table can create a non existent person Philip. If I can dowse and change the energies of a house what can we all do working together.

It was at the basis of my project Beacon's of Light https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t122-beacons-of-light-project

This was a follow on from being taught to Dowse by Roger Brown who founded Fountain International In Adelaide (having been involved in the one in Brighton in the UK with Colin Bloy and even Michael Bentine). You can find this hear and a trance piece from Lis https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t121-ascended-masters-and-ascension-by-roger-brown

So I diverge about the idea that absent healing does not work but it needs focus. To not accept this concept we may as well throw many of our ideas into the bin.

I do not believe our religion is between God and ourselves I believe it ends up being between us and our helpers and guides in the Spirit Realms. We have no idea of the reality of God and even the greatest Guides are unable to enlighten us. Whatever God is it is creating at the edge of the universe right now. Creation is left to the impacts of the energy within the universe God did not create us we evolved as a result of the forecs within that energy. There is no God of our planet but maybe, like the Philip experiment, we create and give energy to something. I have never listened to Gods, Ministers or priests but I could be guided by the morals and ethics I group with and my interactions with my guide.

On the subject of whither Modern Spiritualism. It is a 100 dollar question. If it dies it will be because Spiritualists have lost the plot because what does it now mean; is it just about power and control, in major organisations, communicating with the dead or has it a meaning to help people in their physical lives and can it communicate that coherently to others.

The only religions that really interfere in peoples lives, Hebrew, Muslim and Hindu weaving their teachings into laws that we may see as barbaric seem to be thriving. Aus is now less than 50% Christian as will the UK and USA be soon.

Spiritualists in Aus in the latest census were under 9,000 of 25 Million, UK 30,000 approx of 58 mill

so given the heights we had, pre organisation, and the unofficial numbers in the late 1920's when it spoke about social issues as well what can recover our situation.

We have a world problem because neither modern religions really fight social issues nor do politicians they deal purely in economics we cannot cure homelessness, domestic violence , child poverty discrimination there is no money, soon we will have no free health for the same. Speaking to the dead does not help this, it's a bit like Marx's Religion is the Opium of the people, don't worry how bad it is it will be fine in the afterlife. So people do not look to religion (lets be honest the major success story teh mega churches do not even run outreach help programs) as they once did.

Part of Spiritualism's early growth was driven by its radical nature which was entwined into the philosophy.