NDEs and Modern Spiritualism

by mac Fri Aug 09, 2024 1:55 pm

I've observed how some folk's interest in the so-called, near-death phenomenon often appears far greater than any interest in the philosophical aspects of survival. However, what's reported in accounts of situations where individuals appeared close to death is not exactly similar to what's been reported/taught about actual, corporeal death.

For many or most it's often not obvious or clear why the two experiences are not exactly similar. Those who experience an NDE - and those who write about them - often say someone had died and then returned from being dead. We Spiritualists know that's not the case but explaining why to someone with no knowledge about survival can be demanding - I've tried!

Given the number of reported NDEs and interest in hearing about them what does Modern Spiritualism have to say? It looks likely there will be ever-increasing numbers "brought back from the dead" by modern medical interventions and they can be very deeply influenced and changed by the experience. Shouldn't we - especially those representing Spiritualism - be engaging about this phenomenon and building on the experiences of those affected by introducing them, and others just interested, to the deeper spiritual aspects?

by Admin Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:39 am

A very good point Mac and Modern Spiritualism should be taking an interest in these and other aspects that modern science has visited. Change of personality after translator Botkin's induced mediumship. I suspect you have much more knowledge on NDE's than I have accumulated

by mac Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:29 am

Admin wrote:A very good point Mac and Modern Spiritualism should be taking an interest in these and other aspects that modern science has visited. Change of personality after translator Botkin's induced mediumship. I suspect you have much more knowledge on NDE's than I have accumulated

Perhaps more contact with individuals fascinated by the notion of near-death and believing either that someone had "come back from the dead" and/or had experienced exactly what happens after corporeal death.

I used to be dismissive of the whole NDE idea but eventually acknowledged that NDE accounts were having far more of an impact in conveying the notion of survival than any amount of Spiritualist teaching or mediumistic communications was having. Indeed the very difficulty of trying to find an experienced, dependable medium may result in folk never having a chance of experiencing communications with their loved ones in spirit.

I do hope folk will remember I consider myself a staunch Modern Spiritualist who has been been promoting, presenting and discussing survival from a Spiritualist perspective for four decades. I'm not a detractor but Spiritualism ain't working for too many people.

by mac Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:38 am

Admin wrote:A very good point Mac and Modern Spiritualism should be taking an interest in these and other aspects that modern science has visited. Change of personality after translator Botkin's induced mediumship. I suspect you have much more knowledge on NDE's than I have accumulated

And you have far more knowledge about most other subjects, Jim!

My minuscule knowledge is underpinned by Spiritualism's teachings but although I'm 77 - almost the same age as yourself, Jim - I'm finding Spiritualist teaching is old-fashioned and does not adequately deal with modern-day issues. What's needed in Modern Spiritualism is a modern-day Silver Birch, someone able to offer guidance on the things that modern-day folk are more in tune with.

by Light-Nature-Truth Fri Aug 16, 2024 6:50 am

Hi, mac, Jim,
I am new to the site, what a hidden gem of debate and discussion of topics this is.
I have tried to post/reply before now but don't know where it went.

NDE isn't a topic I have looked into too deeply. But my friend has and recommended Anita Moorjani to look into. I am pretty sure she was an atheist before her experience.

It seems that NDE is a personal experience that only those experiencing it can comprehend, yet life changing.
I don't have much to say on the topic but felt to add to the discussion and hope this is ok.

Kind Regards

mac wrote:
Admin wrote:A very good point Mac and Modern Spiritualism should be taking an interest in these and other aspects that modern science has visited. Change of personality after translator Botkin's induced mediumship. I suspect you have much more knowledge on NDE's than I have accumulated
Perhaps more contact with individuals fascinated by the notion of near-death and believing either that someone had "come back from the dead" and/or had experienced exactly what happens after corporeal death.

I used to be dismissive of the whole NDE idea but eventually acknowledged that NDE accounts were having far more of an impact in conveying the notion of survival than any amount of Spiritualist teaching or mediumistic communications was having. Indeed the very difficulty of trying to find an experienced, dependable medium may result in folk never having a chance of experiencing communications with their loved ones in spirit.

I do hope folk will remember I consider myself a staunch Modern Spiritualist who has been been promoting, presenting and discussing survival from a Spiritualist perspective for four decades. I'm not a detractor but Spiritualism ain't working for too many people.

by mac Fri Aug 16, 2024 8:14 am

Light-Nature-Truth wrote:Hi, mac, Jim,
I am new to the site, what a hidden gem of debate and discussion of topics this is.
I have tried to post/reply before now but don't know where it went.

NDE isn't a topic I have looked into too deeply. But my friend has and recommended Anita Moorjani to look into. I am pretty sure she was an atheist before her experience.

It seems that NDE is a personal experience that only those experiencing it can comprehend, yet life changing.
I don't have much to say on the topic but felt to add to the discussion and hope this is ok.

Kind Regards

mac wrote:
Admin wrote:A very good point Mac and Modern Spiritualism should be taking an interest in these and other aspects that modern science has visited. Change of personality after translator Botkin's induced mediumship. I suspect you have much more knowledge on NDE's than I have accumulated
Perhaps more contact with individuals fascinated by the notion of near-death and believing either that someone had "come back from the dead" and/or had experienced exactly what happens after corporeal death.

I used to be dismissive of the whole NDE idea but eventually acknowledged that NDE accounts were having far more of an impact in conveying the notion of survival than any amount of Spiritualist teaching or mediumistic communications was having. Indeed the very difficulty of trying to find an experienced, dependable medium may result in folk never having a chance of experiencing communications with their loved ones in spirit.

I do hope folk will remember I consider myself a staunch Modern Spiritualist who has been been promoting, presenting and discussing survival from a Spiritualist perspective for four decades. I'm not a detractor but Spiritualism ain't working for too many people.

It's good to hear from someone new to this website - welcome! Smile

You're right that the experience of apparent (or actual) near-death is a totally subjective, personal experience. I don't agree, though, that only the experiencer can comprehend what happened. Indeed one might remark than an experiencer is very unlikely to comprehend it unless they already had some understanding of the notion of our survival of corporeal death. That same principle must also apply in the case of someone with no understanding of either!

I haven't read anything by Moorjani but she may have something to offer as explanation of what happens.

by mac Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:24 am

As I've mentioned elsewhere I used to be dismissive of the value of near-death experience accounts but now I see them having a very great potential value.

On Karl Jackson-Barnes Facebook special interest page he recently posted a link (Vicki) to an interview with a woman blind from birth who temporarily was able to see after she experienced severe injuries and appeared near to death.

I found it fascinating and engaging and I think it's worth a listen by anyone even a little interested in this topic.

by Janhar Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:15 am

I too can recommend the Anita Moorjani book “Dying to be me”. I don’t feel I want to or need to read these accounts these days because, as Anita herself says, there are no words to describe properly. However, her account resonated with me.

by mac Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:33 pm

We declared Spiritualists are blessed in knowing about survival and other issues.

However I came to recognise the potential value of NDEs very recently, a switcheroo for me. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest that, (quote) "...there are no words to describe properly." because that can be said about most of the after-death, afterlife situation. Yes we know about some of it but words fail to anywhere-near adequately convey what goes on in the etheric world(s).

What I've observed, though, is that regular gals and guys can be engaged by a near death story. Accounts about what happens may draw listeners in far more effectively than dry-as-dust messages in a church hall, often for someone who turns up every week hoping to hear yet another boring one - boring, that is, to those not involved.

A well-explained, well told account of an NDE has the potential to reach many, many more listeners than a tiny Spiritualist church hall or even a commercial auditorium presentation can. But, but, BUT beyond the NDE story is where Modern Spiritualism scores. It can explain why nobody died during the NDE even though that's what's often believed and reported.

It might be said an NDE is like a tasty salad - it's exciting and enjoyable but it leaves one wanting something substantial. Spiritualism can provide the main course. What's needed is to link the message of survival with near-death experiences.

by Janhar Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:37 pm

I’m not certain that you don’t die physically, even momentarily, though yes, there seems to be no actual “passing over” during an NDE as they usually describe it as being sent back. My Dad had a short experience which interested him greatly.
He had a pulmonary embolism following an appendectomy in 1967. My mother was warned that it would be very critical in a further 2 days time when the anticoagulant would have broken down the clot sufficiently for it to start moving and that pieces of the clot would move through the heart. He might have also worked this out for himself though as far as I am aware nobody told him this as a bald fact.
On the night of the crucial day of danger he had an experience of awaking to find another man in bed with him. He struggled with this man trying to push him out of the bed. Then, he found himself up just under the ceiling looking down at his bed and seeing this other man in the bed and being agitated about it. Then he suddenly found himself back in his bed alone. A nurse came to ask him what was making him restless and he told her about this fellow who had been in his bed and how he had seen him and then he was gone. The nurse said to him “Mr G****** you are going to be alright now”. Dad felt she had heard all this stuff before in the ICU.
I have always thought that pieces from the breaking down clot were passing through his heart at that time and at some point the heart stopped then restarted. My Dad thought so too.

by mac Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:42 pm

I'm an old-fashioned old-fart. Death for me is irreversible, a one-way trip from which we don't return to incarnate life under any circumstances. If an individual is still around and telling her/his tale then that individual didn't die.

I don't go along with the "I was dead for x minutes!" stories any more than I'll accept someone's heart stopping being the same as their being dead - even momentarily.

For this Spiritualist when corporeal death occurs it's a situation where separation of a body from its animating spirit has happened. It's when the breaking of the so-called silver cord occurs, the parting of the umbilical-like, mostly invisible, 'tether' linking 'body and soul' so to speak.

by Janhar Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:25 am

I agree, but the separation of the etheric from the physical/corporeal body is a powerful experience (for the experiencer) and can change a person’s thinking about the possibility of life after death.

by mac Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:57 pm

Janhar wrote:I agree, but the separation of the etheric from the physical/corporeal body is a powerful experience (for the experiencer) and can change a person’s thinking about the possibility of life after death.

quite so

It's why nowadays I attribute much more importance to the potential impact of even just hearing about near-death experiences let alone the profound impact on the individual who experiences one. As I wrote earlier I see them having the potential to reach many more people than do messages in church etc.

The transient separation of the physical body and the etheric one directly affects the experiencer and introduces her/him to the notion of life outside of this physical dimension. And hearing accounts of them may result in a similar - if less profound - outcome for anyone else.

by Janhar Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:34 pm

mac wrote:
Janhar wrote:

The transient separation of the physical body and the etheric one directly affects the experiencer and introduces her/him to the notion of life outside of this physical dimension. And hearing accounts of them may result in a similar - if less profound - outcome for anyone else.
Well, Dad told a few people only about his experience and I am sure he will now, in the Spirit, be happy for it to be passed on to others as a small example of how this temporary shift of the etheric seemingly can happen. He never described it as the etheric of course. He was not into “speculation” he dealt in hard facts and did not study these things. However, he did have an open mind and an interest in the afterlife so was very interested about this experience. In particular he seemed taken by the fact that he had no realisation at the time that the other man in his bed was himself and that his awareness was briefly all in the etheric, (which Dad just described as himself). He had a few unexplained experiences in his life and was probably very mediumistic. His intuition was off the wall.

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