Should You Lose Awards if you leave the SNU or other Group

I promised to open a new topic about this.

At this stage it has arisen from the major topic https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2485-why-is-there-a-clash-between-the-tutors-and-the-afc

Clearly the status of the 20 Tutors still hangs in the air just two weeks before the AGM.

The gag orders remain in place but there seems to have been no progress in the Arbitration. So what happens now, if for some inexplicable reason, the current President and, the existing NEC, manage to keep on pushing through reforms at the AGM and ignoring the invalid election process. Well it would appear they retain power and the Tutor issue is well and truly in their power to handle as they like.

It has always been my expectation that the President and new Course Convenor never really intended to change direction. It looks a little like my way or the highway, back down and sign the contract or else.

The question is what else. Can they remain in the SNU? and what happens to their certificates, awards and SNU qualifications if they are forced out (or expelled)? Well we know they are gone, I suppose they could unofficially claim them but with the current rules how long before the SNU start pursuing people who use certificates that have been lost., or indeed insisting that Churches only use certificatesd or in training mediums.

Of course the value of the awards depends on their merits, Who decides on the award and how are they examined. We know none are recognised in law as educational certificates/diplomas or degrees.

Except possibly the OSNU and MSNU where the qualification meets legal requirements like marriage registration (in the UK only). I also believe that the TSNU, which is so hard to obtain (normally) has merit. Surely the SNU would love to have tutors travelling round the world showing how worthwhile this qualification is and how great the AFC must be.

I have seen CSNU's I would not like to have on my platform and mediums with no certification I love to see.

Of course none of these are transferable between organisations, the NSAC has its own group of awards, equally lost if they leave the organisation. You cannot be an NSAC member and and SNU one and have joint certification. etc etc.

So what do you really get when an organisation certifies you (sic). Nothing of real value except while you are in that body. There is another way - through diplomas certified by official requirements yet I realise neither the SNU or NSAC will recognise those.

So here we go - a debate on this can happily commence here.

I think you can still use the certificates if you remain in the SNU and don’t use them for activities outside the SNU approval. So, if the tutors retain their SNU membership there should not be a problem. If they stop working at the college they will not necessarily leave the SNU. If they were ejected from the SNU that would be another matter. All this is very hypothetical as we do not know the basis of the complaint or the legal ramifications of it. They will speak out when they can.
If they leave the SNU or get ejected I very much doubt if any of them will care tuppence about those certificates. Their own reputations as mediums and teachers have far more value.

I did consider going down the CSNU route, to be honest though, I too have seen some award holders who I wouldn’t want to see work and, people who haven’t gone down the awards route that are great mediums. With that in mind, I wondered how much value the awards actually have. If you want to be a tutor at the AFC then the qualifications are necessary but, other than that, to my mind hold very little worth.  

Add to that the fact that you always have to be a member of the SNU, or they are “removed”, or they can be taken away if they think you have done something wrong (which is fair enough if you are genuinely bringing the union into disrepute, by working in a way that is potentially dangerous or downright harmful and insulting to the Spirit world) but, I’ve heard that they get to decide why they get removed. With the current lot in “power” that might not be very much, potentially you only need to disagree with them.

I once thought that the awards were something to aim for, now I’m not sure they’re worth the paper they are written on, so I will keep my money and let my work speak for me, that way, if I get bookings it’s down to me and if I don’t, that’s also down to me.

I very much doubt that they will go down the route of only award holders, or those in training will be allowed to serve the churches. For one, at least for the time being, the churches have autonomy, for two, there are far too many services that need covering and not enough award holder to cover them. A lot of mediums potentially can’t afford to go down the certification route, or simply don’t want to, so if they try that I think we will see a lot of new independent centres opening up, and/or those churches that are able to, leaving the SNU and becoming independent.

I won’t go down the route of being certified by an outside body, simply because, the reason I considered going for CSNU and above, was because I was a proud SNU Spiritualist, so it was their qualifications that meant something to me,, not anymore. I’m now thankful that I didn’t waste my money, or put myself through the process because after the AGM I will be cancelling my membership (unless something drastic happens between now and then), which would render any awards invalid as well as worthless.

As for the tutors, I don’t know how they would feel, IF their awards are removed if things aren’t resolved, given the amount of dedication and time and commitment they have put into earning those awards, not to mention the service they have given while having them, and, the money it cost them to get there, they’d have every right to be “upset”  at the very least, they’d also be entitled to not want to use them, or to associate themselves with the SNU anymore, why should they let their hard work, love and service to and for Spirit enhance the reputation of the SNU and the AFC?

When you consider that a lot of students go to the college for the tutors, with the building being a bonus and not the reason,, alienating twenty of the most popular hasn’t been their smartest move. I would be interested to know (out of curiosity) how many have cancelled courses for next year, now that the course tutors have been replaced. I have cancelled my place on the course that I was booked onto and will not be looking at any of the others as I would usually do.

Yes, it will be interesting. It will only be  people who want those tutors only that will withdraw. We will have to wait snd see.

Good points MoMer, which I agree with, It is important to realise that the AFC will never make you a medium or Psychic, unless you have enough money to attend monthly. Even then it would not replicate platform experience. I only became involved in Spiritualism through meeting my wife in 1983.

At that time to be a medium you attended circles, frequently with very good teachers, different for each stage of the journey. In Victoria, when she started Lis was in a circle run by the then President of the Victorian Spiritualist Union (Aus of course) George Eldred. Moving to the UK she went into various circles to continue development, visited the AFC twice, I believe for courses to polish up part. However key was the group, only for people already on Platform, around Ilford Essex, where the leader was a very experienced teacher and a martinet. Lis became a very good mental and trance medium and teacher.

We need really good circles around the churches rather than even the AFC. However if awards and accreditations are given they should be at the highest level and eliminate personalities and the threat of removal.

I was a member of the SNU for a few years. I started doing the PASS accreditation. It was extremely badly run at that time, from finishing the workshops and going for the PASS I think there was a three year gap. I went all the way to Stafford for the PASS. I came across an extremely difficult egotistical man there who was apparently in charge. Yes I passed but after that day I decided to stop being a member of the SNU and didn't bother to go for CSNU. My decision was based on the fact that they are supposed to be a Spiritual Organisation and when you get people in charge behaving in such a difficult egotistical way that yo me isn't very Spiritual. I haven't regretted my decision. I am hoping that the present situation at the SNU AFC will culmanate in a complete change of personnel at the top. If that happens and it's then left by Spiritual People I will be very happy to rejoin.

I'm still hoping someone out there will answer my simple questions two postings above???

mac wrote:I'm still hoping someone out there will answer my simple questions two postings above???

In Aug 1999 as an SNU member, I was upgraded by the SNU Healing Committee and sent an SNU Healing Committee registration card saying I was registered as a Spiritualist Healer with a reference number and an expiry date of 1st Jan 2005. I was invited to purchase a certificate to frame for £1.50 if I wanted one. Cannot tell you if all SNU certificates need to be renewed but mine did, though I was never told if I would need evidence of continued practice to do so. I had left the SNU by 2005.

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:I'm still hoping someone out there will answer my simple questions two postings above???

In Aug 1999 as an SNU member, I was upgraded by the SNU Healing Committee and sent an SNU Healing Committee registration card saying I was registered as a Spiritualist Healer with a reference number and an expiry date of 1st Jan 2005. I was invited to purchase a certificate to frame for £1.50 if I wanted one. Cannot tell you if all SNU certificates need to be renewed but mine did, though I was never told if I would need evidence of continued practice to do so. I had left the SNU  by 2005.

Is the SNU Healing Committee registration card the same as the certificates/awards I had been asking about?

mac wrote:

Janhar wrote:

mac wrote:I'm still hoping someone out there will answer my simple questions two postings above???

In Aug 1999 as an SNU member, I was upgraded by the SNU Healing Committee and sent an SNU Healing Committee registration card saying I was registered as a Spiritualist Healer with a reference number and an expiry date of 1st Jan 2005. I was invited to purchase a certificate to frame for £1.50 if I wanted one. Cannot tell you if all SNU certificates need to be renewed but mine did, though I was never told if I would need evidence of continued practice to do so. I had left the SNU  by 2005.

Is the SNU Healing Committee registration card the same as the certificates/awards I had been asking about?

No it wasn't a csnu or anything a tutor would have to get. My healer training practical assessments were done in the local church under their supervision They had to sign a log for me weekly after each week's healing session. I had to get about 100 logs I think and it took 2 years. I had to submit several essays on healing topics and snu healing regulations. Had to hand write them ( no computer in the nineties) and post them to an SNU teacher who marked them and posted them back to me with my mark and sometimes a bit of supplementary info if she thought I had missed a bit out that could have gone in. Not too arduous.

I was thinking about the issue of either giving back awards or having them taken off you by the SNU. What happens to your insurance? Because surely if you got the insurance through having that particular award or certificate then that insurance is null and void once you lose the awards? Can someone tell me or should I contact my insurance company?

OnlyVisitingEarth wrote:I was thinking about the issue of either giving back awards or having them taken off you by the SNU.  What happens to your insurance? Because surely if you got the insurance through having that particular award or certificate then that insurance is null and void once you lose the awards? Can someone tell me or should I contact my insurance company?

Does the writing on your certificate, although anSNU one, actually refer to you as being an SNU member or infer in any way that it is only valid with SNU membership?. Also, does it have an expiry/renewal date. I think you should definitely check with your insurance and stay in the SNU if you are in any doubt, or if the insurers seem to be in any doubt. The reason I ask those questions is because it might make a difference to the insurer and also, even if not useful for insurance after leaving SNU, it might still be feasible for you to use the certificate as a credential, even if no longer recognised by SNU.