Is an increase in earthbound spirits likely?

by Left Behind Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:48 am

I'll start the conversation going by answering my own question, and in the affirmative. Here's why I think so.

For centuries, the earth's population was more heavily centered in the Christian West than it is now. And without getting into a debate about the merits and demerits of organized Christianity, the fact remains that it inculcated in its followers what I would term an Ascensional outlook regarding their fate after bodily death: when you die, you go to heaven.

Today, the world's population has shifted to the East, where most people have traditionally believed in reincarnation, and where many now -- the masses of China -- profess no religious beliefs at all.

Meanwhile, back home in the West, more and more people are discarding traditional Christian beliefs in favor of the materialistic 'when you're dead, you're dead' school of thought; or else they are adopting the religious superstitions of the East, which include reincarnation.

If you believe that when you die, that's it. . . or if you believe that when you die, your fate is to be reborn in another earthly body. . . either way, you're likely to have a harder time breaking free of the earth plane than if you believe you will ascend to a better life: or so it seems to me.

What do you think?

by obiwan Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:20 pm

I think that’s a very interesting question. Although I guess the world is perhaps less religious in many senses, if the strongly held beliefs of the past were more common it may be that just as many might get “stuck” - perhaps just in different ways?

by Admin Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:55 am

I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

by Left Behind Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:33 am

obiwan wrote:I think that’s a very interesting question. Although I guess the world is perhaps less religious in many senses, if the strongly held beliefs of the past were more common it may be that just as many might get “stuck” - perhaps just in different ways?

I think that this might well be true for those with very adamantly-held traditional beliefs, Obiwan -- "I'm not getting off here, this can't be Heaven, where's Jesus, . . . ", etc But I'm not sure that most Christians had such strongly formed beliefs. Seems to me that finding yourself looking into a good place would be enough to make most of them step through the threshold.

by Left Behind Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:37 am

Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

Regarding the first part: this is great news, Jim!

Regarding the second: just what DOES Spirit do at the point of transition? Sounds like the basis for a great Thread there. Very Happy

by obiwan Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:55 pm

Left Behind wrote:
obiwan wrote:I think that’s a very interesting question. Although I guess the world is perhaps less religious in many senses, if the strongly held beliefs of the past were more common it may be that just as many might get “stuck” - perhaps just in different ways?

I think that this might well be true for those with very adamantly-held traditional beliefs, Obiwan -- "I'm not getting off here, this can't be Heaven, where's Jesus, . . . ", etc But I'm not sure that most Christians had such strongly formed beliefs. Seems to me that finding yourself looking into a good place would be enough to make most of them step through the threshold.

You’d hope it would be enough I agree. That said, some of us do seem to have a great capacity to convince ourselves the world is just as we imagine it to be.

by mac Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:01 pm

Left Behind wrote:
Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

Regarding the first part: this is great news, Jim!

Regarding the second: just what DOES Spirit do at the point of transition? Sounds like the basis for a great Thread there.

Such puzzles used to engage me when I was two or three decades younger but with the imminence of my finding out first-hand before long I find no pressing need to know or even think about such issues. Wink

by mac Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

It seems to me there will always be some who find it harder to make whatever transition marks the change from incarnate to discarnate life - I'm not sure that's what 'getting stuck' relates to though. That there might be a significantly greater number now than there used to be is in my view doubtful, at least based on the premise outlined. I expect incalculable numbers of souls will have passed from this life with all kinds of daft ideas in their heads from the beliefs they held or the conditioning they experienced. But apart from a comparatively few total crackpots, almost inseparably wedded to certain religious beliefs and teachings, as I understand things folk make the journey without too much bother, albeit perhaps needing someone metaphorically - or even literally - holding their hands and leading them in the direction that's best for them individually.

Jim Admin bases his view on his experience and I base mine on what I've learned but essentially we appear to see things similarly. If I can get back to anyone to clarify the situation after I've found out first-hand for myself I'll let you know!

by Left Behind Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:16 pm

mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

Regarding the first part: this is great news, Jim!

Regarding the second: just what DOES Spirit do at the point of transition? Sounds like the basis for a great Thread there.

Such puzzles used to engage me when I was two or three decades younger but with the imminence of my finding out first-hand before long I find no pressing need to know or even think about such issues.

To tell you the truth, Mac: we often say that -- perhaps only semi-humorously -- but I have my doubts. Why do so many spirit guides and NDE experiencers and out of body experiencers contradict one another?

"We reincarnate. . . we don't reincarnate. . . there are three levels in the afterlife. . no, seven. . no, an infinite number. . . Jesus is God. . . no, he isn't. . . you'll meet him there. . no, you won't. . there is a heaven and hell . . there isn't. . . "

I'm wondering if so much of the alleged wisdom we're receiving (when it isn't just a living person's alternative personality) is really the spirit person's own culturally-determined, personal beliefs, which continue for probably quite a while in the spirit world?

I'm beginning to believe that those who really 'know the score' about life in the spirit world -- at least, life in the spirit world, at advanced levels there -- are probably beyond being able to contact us. Or, have long since lost the desire to do so.

by Admin Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:00 am

There are so many aspects to this thread its great unfortunately over teh last few days my time has run short a reading mid day Friday, yesterday was the mediumship mentoring session run by Lis for mediums working or about to start working on platform, I am part of that and itsreally good but hard work and today as leader of Unley Spiritualists Association i am medium and speaker at the 97th Anniversary meeting (note we do not call it a service). I think I will be able to get to it tomorrow next week is quieter.

As to Mac's comments which you replied to Jim I do not believe Spirit misquote from the after life I believe we mis-translate; our sub conscious can intervene and overlay ideas even in the deepest trance. Did Red Cloud, Silver Birch and White Eagle really mis predict about peace not war in 1939 or was that the subconscious wish of the medium and his entire circle.

Then we have the second problemof explaining concepts of what teh Spirit world is like to people who have no idea of what it looks like. Imagine a 21st century man explaining modern life to a 15th Century man..Computers, Phones, Planes, Space Rockets..no man on the moon or even mars..he may even have to break the news that we revolve round the sun and the earth is not flat. So just how does Spirit, living life in a world of pure energy, explain how life is conducted to beings of matter? Clearly Andrew Jackson Davis's Summerland does not cut the mustard nor most of the idyllic worlds reported by Victorian mediums.... or the rather nastier visions of Vale Owen in his Life beyond the Veil series (e.g. the treatment of suicides I have given messages and had readings involving people who committed suicide and they were not condemned to some worse fate indeed most commented on the help they had received).

As I said the thread opens up so many lines of thought.

Jim

by Left Behind Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:42 am

You mention there two possible explanations that are at least as plausible as mine, Jim. And no doubt there are others.

Certainly it all points to the conclusion that just because someone allegedly visited the afterworld, or they are allegedly channelling a denizen thereof, doesn't mean that we should accept all information they are presenting to us as being literally correct -- or literally comprehensible by us -- in all respects. Shocked

by mac Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:25 am

In 'work' online 'speaking' to individuals who told of their communications with discarnates, and the things those discarnates told them, I've routinely cautioned they should keep the following points in mind. I suggest that the discarnates we can most readily communicate with - be that via mediumship, channelling or whatever - may be little more spiritually advanced (if at all) than the incarnates listening to their words. I suggest increased caution when they appear to offer guidance unless previous guidance has been found sound and helpful.

by mac Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:41 am

Left Behind wrote:
mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

Regarding the first part: this is great news, Jim!

Regarding the second: just what DOES Spirit do at the point of transition? Sounds like the basis for a great Thread there.

Such puzzles used to engage me when I was two or three decades younger but with the imminence of my finding out first-hand before long I find no pressing need to know or even think about such issues.

To tell you the truth, Mac: we often say that -- perhaps only semi-humorously -- but I have my doubts. Why do so many spirit guides and NDE experiencers and out of body experiencers contradict one another?

"We reincarnate. . . we don't reincarnate. . . there are three levels in the afterlife. . no, seven. . no, an infinite number. . . Jesus is God. . . no, he isn't. . . you'll meet him there. . no, you won't. . there is a heaven and hell . . there isn't. . . "

I'm wondering if so much of the alleged wisdom we're receiving (when it isn't just a living person's alternative personality) is really the spirit person's own culturally-determined, personal beliefs, which continue for probably quite a while in the spirit world?

I'm beginning to believe that those who really 'know the score' about life in the spirit world -- at least, life in the spirit world, at advanced levels there -- are probably beyond being able to contact us. Or, have long since lost the desire to do so.

It's reassuring - and somewhat unusual! - to hear someone feeling and speaking in much the same way as I. Very Happy

So often now I 'shidad' at what I read online on certain forum-style websites but, thankfully, feel little desire to suggest folk should be cautious what they're hearing/seeing. Putting it less charitably, much of what they write and what they believe is simply tosh, the ramblings of sensitive/psychic individuals who need help to focus their energies productively.

These individuals usually have no appreciation of, no overall context for what they're experiencing and are likely to be guided by other individuals in a similar situation - the blind leading the blind and that's far from helpful! Rolling Eyes

by Left Behind Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:15 pm

mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

Regarding the first part: this is great news, Jim!

Regarding the second: just what DOES Spirit do at the point of transition? Sounds like the basis for a great Thread there.

Such puzzles used to engage me when I was two or three decades younger but with the imminence of my finding out first-hand before long I find no pressing need to know or even think about such issues.

To tell you the truth, Mac: we often say that -- perhaps only semi-humorously -- but I have my doubts. Why do so many spirit guides and NDE experiencers and out of body experiencers contradict one another?

"We reincarnate. . . we don't reincarnate. . . there are three levels in the afterlife. . no, seven. . no, an infinite number. . . Jesus is God. . . no, he isn't. . . you'll meet him there. . no, you won't. . there is a heaven and hell . . there isn't. . . "

I'm wondering if so much of the alleged wisdom we're receiving (when it isn't just a living person's alternative personality) is really the spirit person's own culturally-determined, personal beliefs, which continue for probably quite a while in the spirit world?

I'm beginning to believe that those who really 'know the score' about life in the spirit world -- at least, life in the spirit world, at advanced levels there -- are probably beyond being able to contact us. Or, have long since lost the desire to do so.

It's reassuring - and somewhat unusual! - to hear someone feeling and speaking in much the same way as I.

So often now I 'shidad' at what I read online on certain forum-style websites but, thankfully, feel little desire to suggest folk should be cautious what they're hearing/seeing. Putting it less charitably, much of what they write and what they believe is simply tosh, the ramblings of sensitive/psychic individuals who need help to focus their energies productively.

These individuals usually have no appreciation of, no overall context for what they're experiencing and are likely to be guided by other individuals in a similar situation - the blind leading the blind and that's far from helpful!

Maybe not the blind leading the blind, so much as like attracting like: in both worlds?

What I mean is -- just as an example -- if I'm a vegetarian. . . or a reincarnationist. . . or a believer in the unique divinity of Jesus of Narareth. . . I'm likely to attract folks around me, both in my daily life, and sitters in a circle -- who share similar views. I / we are likely to be visited by discarnate spirits, who share similar views and who tell us yes, absolutely, w are correct.

Meanwhile, at the circle across town, another discarnate spirit who sees nothing wrong with meat eating. . . or who didn't and doesn't believe in reincarnation. . . or who believes that Jesus was a highly developed human, but nothing more. . . is preaching these same things to the choir of those already convinced in them. . .

by Left Behind Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:18 pm

mac wrote:In 'work' online 'speaking' to individuals who told of their communications with discarnates, and the things those discarnates told them, I've routinely cautioned they should keep the following points in mind. I suggest that the discarnates we can most readily communicate with - be that via mediumship, channelling or whatever - may be little more spiritually advanced (if at all) than the incarnates listening to their words. I suggest increased caution when they appear to offer guidance unless previous guidance has been found sound and helpful.

A few months ago, a medium brought through an uncle of mine. His messages made me laugh, because he -- passed on for several years -- was still worried about situations within the family that he worried about when incarnate; and that I thought were a waste of his time and energy, even then. Very Happy

by Left Behind Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:21 pm

The best thing to do is just to find a view of the afterlife that makes you happy, and be content with that. If you pass on and find out that you were correct: that's great! If you were wrong: just adapt.

But maybe we have at least a limited ability to make reality be what we want it to, at least on the next plane of existence? If so, that's all the more reason to construct what you want, now.

by mac Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:06 pm

Left Behind wrote:
mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
mac wrote:
Left Behind wrote:
Admin wrote:I get so many messages from loved one's who were of teh when you are dead you are dead; or had alternate religous affiliations, taht I do not agree with this Jim. It apears that your loved ones and Spirit always step in to help with the transition. Stuck is a rarity more a stae of th individual Spirits mind, I believe those who practice Spirit Rescue fail to understand just what Spirit actually do at the point of transition.

Regarding the first part: this is great news, Jim!

Regarding the second: just what DOES Spirit do at the point of transition? Sounds like the basis for a great Thread there.

Such puzzles used to engage me when I was two or three decades younger but with the imminence of my finding out first-hand before long I find no pressing need to know or even think about such issues.

To tell you the truth, Mac: we often say that -- perhaps only semi-humorously -- but I have my doubts. Why do so many spirit guides and NDE experiencers and out of body experiencers contradict one another?

"We reincarnate. . . we don't reincarnate. . . there are three levels in the afterlife. . no, seven. . no, an infinite number. . . Jesus is God. . . no, he isn't. . . you'll meet him there. . no, you won't. . there is a heaven and hell . . there isn't. . . "

I'm wondering if so much of the alleged wisdom we're receiving (when it isn't just a living person's alternative personality) is really the spirit person's own culturally-determined, personal beliefs, which continue for probably quite a while in the spirit world?

I'm beginning to believe that those who really 'know the score' about life in the spirit world -- at least, life in the spirit world, at advanced levels there -- are probably beyond being able to contact us. Or, have long since lost the desire to do so.

It's reassuring - and somewhat unusual! - to hear someone feeling and speaking in much the same way as I.

So often now I 'shidad' at what I read online on certain forum-style websites but, thankfully, feel little desire to suggest folk should be cautious what they're hearing/seeing. Putting it less charitably, much of what they write and what they believe is simply tosh, the ramblings of sensitive/psychic individuals who need help to focus their energies productively.

These individuals usually have no appreciation of, no overall context for what they're experiencing and are likely to be guided by other individuals in a similar situation - the blind leading the blind and that's far from helpful!

Maybe not the blind leading the blind, so much as like attracting like: in both worlds?

What I mean is -- just as an example -- if I'm a vegetarian. . . or a reincarnationist. . . or a believer in the unique divinity of Jesus of Narareth. . . I'm likely to attract folks around me, both in my daily life, and sitters in a circle -- who share similar views. I / we are likely to be visited by discarnate spirits, who share similar views and who tell us yes, absolutely, w are correct.

Meanwhile, at the circle across town, another discarnate spirit who sees nothing wrong with meat eating. . . or who didn't and doesn't believe in reincarnation. . . or who believes that Jesus was a highly developed human, but nothing more. . . is preaching these same things to the choir of those already convinced in them. . .

I agree about the notion of like-attracts-like applying here and over-there in equal measure. But that's not the situation I was referring to which is one where a seeker looks to another for help without due diligence about whether that other is truly in a position of having superior knowledge or experience.

And that other may be flattered by such a seeker's attention treating it as endorsement of their approach. Hence the seeker is encouraged to follow a similar route, even when it's misguided. The blind leading the blind.

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