Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

Sarcasm:-)?

not from me!

Better not be:-)!

Hi Steve,

There is so much more to come on this let us wait and let things fall out, I know you are very supportive,( I may believe you get caught in the moment but you would certainly dispute this), of the PM's despite much, very contradictory, information.

Jim

As some may be aware, Kai Muegge was due to hold a significant number of séances, table tilting, and workshop events, at a venue in Australia between November 7 - 16. It seems, this event was for a charitable purpose, however he would have had his air fares covered.

He was also due to go on to another venue in a different state of Australia to hold yet more séances between the 18th and 28th of November, the charge for each séance being significant and would have netted Muegge a significant amount of money.

Rumour has it, and several sources appear to confirm the accuracy of it, that Mr. Muegge was denied entry to Australia because he attempted to enter on a tourist visa when he was intending to work and obtain income from his activities. The authorities take a dim view of people trying enter Australia on tourist visas when they plan on working.

If Mr Muegge wanted to work while in Australia he should have applied for a work visa, and it seems that the consequence of his action may be that he has been banned from working in all Commonwealth countries, possibly for up for a year.

From what I have heard on the grape vine in recent months, Muegge may have other problems that might make it even more unlikely he will be welcomed back into Australia, and perhaps elsewhere, any time soon.

What has happened to this particular medium (if this person can be considered under that title) might serve also as a warning to other mediums from the UK or elsewhere that think they can travel to Australia on tourist visas when they actually intend to hold demonstrations, séances, workshops, or give private readings for money.

If the Australian immigration authorities learn of their intention they are likely to find themselves in difficulties. Unfortunately, people do seem rather keen to promote themselves and their proposed activities on the internet, especially using social media, and hence rather telegraphing to the powers that be what they are up to.

There is a lesson to be learnt here!

As it happens, there is some further rumours about, but to hear more on that you need to take a look at the Warren Caylor thread on this forum. https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t91-warren-caylor

Jane Lyzell wrote:what i understand there has been an ivestigation on Kai Mugges physical mediumship - we hade the parapsychologists here in sweden - resurts the investigetion on that resurs by Michael Nham and Prof Stephan Braude that has been don for 4 yers- Two researchers Stephen Braude and Michael Nahm investigated the medium Kai Mugge, Felix Experimental Group, for four years.

Their conclusion was that the fraud could not be ruled out, which does not surprise me in the slightest.

Among other things, scientists had studied the so-called ectoplasm which in this case was similar web. Such fabric they found in a shop where illusionist gadgets sold and they also had evidence that Kai Mugge had bought an incredible amount of artificial cobwebs. The researchers had also tried to have the material in the mouth and after that they had been able to shape the exact same "model" as Kai showed up during the seances. They had also found the stash, which was claimed by retrieving, in a store. A light phenomenon that impressed turned out to also be sold in the shop for magicians products.

and what i understand he he refused to be body searched- if this is right is a nother scandal in physical mediumship - ho culd you trusth ?

"Fraud could not be ruled out" is more a comment on the protocol and controls in place than a comment on the genuineness of the medium as such imho. I'm not saying the medium is genuine just that the phrase seems a bit lame to me.

On the visa matter - that's just plain stupid isn't it?

Actually Jane, the research into Muegge didn't take place in Sweden, although I am sure they also visited Sweden as part of their investigation into the man's mediumship. The reports by Braude and Nahm, are clearly already on this thread on the forum, if you care to take a look.

Obiwan, "fraud could not be ruled out" is Jane's remark, not that of the researchers involved, although, I would not blame them had they presented in that way - not because it was about protocols and controls (although in the case of Muegge, if may have been difficult to have actually been in control of such) - but rather more so, because how ever certain they may actually feel of fraud having taken place, until they have cut and dried evidence that would stand up in court ( there is little more than that they can say publicly, I suspect.

On the visa matter, you are entirely correct. - just plain stupid, but at the same time, just plain dishonest. I have no doubt the man was aware that to earn money in Australia he needed a work visa, but with an inclination for undeclared income, to try and get away with false entry into a country proved all too tempting. After all he got away with it the first time he entered Australia, why not try the same approach again?

Hi Lis

On the visa I agree stupid and more to the point, dishonest.

On the fraud matter, my own view is that investigators have a responsibility to insist on sufficient controls and either not to proceed if they can't be applied or at least be very circumspect in their comments if they go ahead.

Actually, in the case of the medium mentioned, there seems to be quite a bit of at least, circumstantial evidence, of fraud that was uncovered post-sitting. I think it is right to mention this. I just didn't like the phrase Jane used as it potentially implies fraud without saying it.

I would say most examples of genuine mediumship could have the same said of them and the phrase introduces an implied criticism of the medium when it is really a criticism of the method.

Admin wrote:Hi Steve,

There is so much more to come on this let us wait and let things fall out, I know you are very supportive,( I may believe you get caught in the moment but you would certainly dispute this), of the PM's despite much, very contradictory, information.

Jim

Hi Jim,
    You're right.  I am dying to see real PM.  It is hard to believe someone so genuine in conversation would be so dishonest in the presentation of their mediumship.  At the seance I attended, my very good friend arranged the whole thing & supplied the venue & worked as Kai's control on his other side across from his wife. I was right next to her. She has been a medium/teacher/ordained minister for many years & I trust her very much.  She believes Kai is for real.  I saw nothing to say he's not.  Specifically the ectoplasm he extruded came from the roof of his mouth...he pulled it with his hands to a length of 10 feet at least.  There was a simultaneous funky smell along with this & I cannot imagine it not being the real stuff.  
With much respect, as always:-)!
Steve

I am not aware of any of the old mediums "pulling ectoplasm" from their mouths, quite the opposite the ectoplasm flowed naturally.

Steve,

Thanks for your remarks. It is, of course, difficult to believe otherwise when from your own personal experience you saw nothing that made you believe this person was not genuine.

Unfortunately, other people have observed otherwise and the matters of the use of what appeared to be D'Lite Flight magic lights and the purchase of the Halloween cobweb material, a matter about which there is no doubt, does, to my mind, give rise to significant concerns.

As for your comments regarding Mr Muegge's wife, I would only point out, that if this person is as experienced and trustworthy as you suggest it is rather surprising, is it not, that she would accompany her husband on a trip to Australia using a tourist visa, knowing her husband was also on a tourist visa.

She would have well known her husband was going to be making a very significant sum of money while in Australia for the many séances and other activities he was going to perform. And, of course, she was going to be assisting him, and therefore complicit in the attempt to deceive the Australian immigration authorities.

Perhaps you are right, in that she believes her husband is "for real," but that does not, in my opinion, excuse dishonesty in terms of their trip to Australia.

Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Lis wrote:Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Did any mediums produce ectoplasm when not in trance?

Hi Lis, I agree it is all too suspicious, for all the years he is operating I've yet to hear of any solid evidence of survival supplied through his so-called mediumship.

obiwan wrote:

Lis wrote:Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Did any mediums produce ectoplasm when not in trance?

A Very good question Obiwan.

Examination of the records would suggest that the production of ectoplasm by mediums was exclusively produced when the medium was in a deep trance state. That being the case, it is particularly 'interesting' to note that in the case of Mr Muegge, he was, while said to be in a trance state, able to so competently manipulate the 'ectoplasm' apparently coming out of his mouth.

Of course, in the early decades of materialisation mediumship there was no record of such 'ectoplasm' flowing out of the orifices of the medium while in the trance state. The materialisations just seemed to grow from a fog or smoke-like mass that developed near to the medium, or, indeed, outside the cabinet in which the medium sat, and eventually form into a recognisable human form or reveal human-like faces within the mass. And, of course, this all happened in a séance room in which there was light not complete darkness.

There is a very sad misconception about all this these days. In the past, when physical phenomena and in particular materialisation phenomena was occurring, the dark séance was for physical phenomena such as the movement of objects, the ringing of bells, etc., while for the materialisation séance, the light was put back on, albeit soft or low light. NO point in having a dark séance for materialisation as no one would see anything which would have defeated the whole purpose of the materialisation séance. It still does!

Lis wrote:

obiwan wrote:

Lis wrote:Hi Mark74,

You are quite correct. The mediums of the past certainly did not pull ectoplasm from their mouths like it was some sort of a party trick. For it to be happening now is, to my mind, very suspicious.

Did any mediums produce ectoplasm when not in trance?

A Very good question Obiwan.

Examination of the records would suggest that the production of ectoplasm by mediums was exclusively produced when the medium was in a deep trance state. That being the case, it is particularly 'interesting' to note that in the case of Mr Muegge, he was, while said to be in a trance state, able to so competently manipulate the 'ectoplasm' apparently coming out of his mouth.

Of course, in the early decades of materialisation mediumship there was no record of such 'ectoplasm' flowing out of the orifices of the medium while in the trance state. The materialisations just seemed to grow from a fog or smoke-like mass that developed near to the medium, or, indeed, outside the cabinet in which the medium sat, and eventually form into a recognisable human form or reveal human-like faces within the mass. And, of course, this all happened in a séance room in which there was light not complete darkness.

There is a very sad misconception about all this these days. In the past, when physical phenomena and in particular materialisation phenomena was occurring, the dark séance was for physical phenomena such as the movement of objects, the ringing of bells, etc., while for the materialisation séance, the light was put back on, albeit soft or low light. NO point in having a dark séance for materialisation as no one would see anything which would have defeated the whole purpose of the materialisation séance. It still does!

Well quite!

Perhaps of interest is the fact that, as I understand it, Mr Muegge was planning to visit the USA in early 2015. One can only hope that he was not intending to enter that country also on a tourist visa when planning to hold a series of séances for which he would be paid.

Perhaps, as a result of his disastrous attempt to enter Australia on a tourist visa only to be sent home, thus failing to fulfil his agreed commitments to those in Australia (and by the way, undoubtedly causing them financial grief in the process), he will now be wanting to find a way to enter America legally.

Perhaps he might hope to obtain a temporary work permit, but that is not always so easy to do I believe, and of course, it would require him to declare his income and pay the appropriate taxes in whatever country is applicable, which might be a serious blow, after having so successfully avoided such legal niceties in recent times when travelling to some countries.

He might also have some difficulties if some of his past escapades became known to the US immigration authorities. They certainly do not like to give entry to people whose past activities and habits are viewed as anti-social (or, of course, illegal), so I do hope that Mr Muegge's past isn't going to catch up with him. But then again, if there is anything in his past that might make him be considered undesirable by the US authorities, it would be their right to refuse him entry into that country.

Hello all,

Have been reading the posts about Mr Muegge with increasing alarm. I have not sat with him, BUT based upon my experience with physical mediums can I suggest the following:

Mediums do NOT pull ectoplasm from themselves. If he was in deep trance, then this would not be possible. I have grave doubts about this.

Once evidence of fraud has been found, or there is a STRONG possibility that the medium has been caught out in such activity their reputation is FOREVER tarnished. There will always be a lingering doubt ( even where a researcher may indicate that genuine phenomena is taking place ). That is a sad fact, but those who profess to practice physical mediumship need to be squeaky clean in that regard and in their practice of it.

That said, there will always be those with hidden agendas whom despite the best evidence will still try and accuse the medium of fakery ( Ie, Mr Houdini and Margery )This is blatantly wrong and is fraud in another guise !. However, when multiple investigators or sitters have doubts it is time to sit up and take notice (Anders Akesson is a case in point...sorry if the spelling is wrong ! ).

I think Mr Muegge is now on increasingly thin ice.......Self promotion may all be very well in this game, but you need to produce the goods if you go down that route.

LeroyC

I think your comments are very apt LeroyC.

And, yes, there are also those who have hidden agendas that will try to accuse a medium of fakery and do so falsely, but I feel sure that this is not the case here. Muegge has been investigated by sincere, serious and committed scientists who have expressed their doubts, and the evidence to support those concerns.

They do not say that all is fraud, but, it seems to me that what they do say should raise serious concerns and make us really look a lot closer at this person, their mediumship, what might motivate them, and their past history.

Hello Liz,

Spot on. I think your assessment is very accurate here...Such a shame, but unfortunately it does not surprise me. I think these days a great 'motivator' for those professing to demonstrate physical mediumship is the 'scent of money' ( Not all, but many ). I have always said that the science of survival and the very rare gift of physical mediumship if far too precious to be about money.

I am upset by the fact that so many now seem to not think this, and that there are so many deluded people and so called physical mediums who will play on the emotions of others who may be gullible, but also be in genuine need. That to me is criminal. ( although its not new is it )

I am reminded here of the mediumship of Hunter Selkirk as an example of perhaps HOW to conduct oneself when possessing this gift. The short account of some of his seances 'Listen my son' is certainly worth reading.

LeroyC

Hi LeroyC, you are quite right using Hunter Selkirk as an example.

May I just add that if people are interested in reading about Hunter's life as a medium ''Listen My Son'' by Harry Emerson is available to buy from Craghead Spiritualist Church.

Mark74 wrote:Hi LeroyC, you are quite right using Hunter Selkirk as an example.

May I just add that if people are interested in reading about Hunter's life as a medium ''Listen My Son'' by Harry Emerson is available to buy from Craghead Spiritualist Church.  

I'll endorse that too. A good read and inexpensive.