Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

by Admin Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:42 am

Someone kindly supplied me with this; Kai's view of What is the value of Physical mediumship ex PM4U. Given the nature of the discussion about him it is worth a read.
"Spirits work with mediums and open physical portals:
- to show that they can influence, bent or even break the acclaimed laws of the physical 3D time
space, implicating the nature of physicality is not yet understood
- to show they can form matter from 'nothing' and even create human forms and manipulate it to a huge degree what implicates further questions about the nature of physicality down to the insight that for example spiritual healing through spirit entities can actively change matter amd even tissue from the human body
- to show that there are higher organized entities present that not only share resp transfer informational content via mediums but also show that they seemingly have an active access to creational processes in our time space
- to show that they can trigger physical ways of reunion with deceased human beings what displays their ability to influence time and space in a more palpable quality than simple messages, especially for attendees of seances
- you may ask why they operate in a way triggering more questions than answers - because it is in their nature to influence the human being to look beyond the obvious, to think the unthinkable because 'the occult', 'their' presence simply cannot be revealed to us in a way that enables full access and understanding because there is a dimensional barrier between us, our mental system and our abilities to comprehend are very much limited to the dimensional environment we are living in.
It is as if you wanted to reveal to 2dimensional comic book character the entire build of the 3dimensional, it doesn t work!
- but we can come closer with our understanding, find analogies and metaphors to come step by step closer to what we call creator - in that sense they are enunciators, announcing that the mystery of the conscious being within the universe has much more aspects and is much deeper than the positive sciences are usually claiming
- so to set us on that track of mind and awareness expansion the physical aspects, the physical entanglement in interdimensional interaction and communication is a undenieable, necessary, important and main aspect to eventually get an insightful better idea of the whole picture.
THATS WHY! "

So he has just re written the whole purpose to something new and rather strange which allows lots of variables.

by Lis Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:28 am

Reads like a load of gibberish to me. Perhaps it sounded better to Kai in his native language.

by Admin Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:34 am

Agree Lis and I thought the definition of Mediumship was to prove the continuing survival of the individual beyond the death of their physical body. I suppose you can add to that trance communications that have sufficient quality to strongly imply that Spirit is communicating.

This Kai version allows just about anything but proof of survival. When you link this to the problems identified by the researchers you can see why there are issues about his work.

by mac Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:23 am

A former contributor here then responded to Muegge's piece:

"I bet I have asked a hundred people "what value is phenomenon in seance if that phenomenon is not evidence of the survival of death"? It is especially interesting to watch the Modern Spiritualists mace spin like tops and blow their heads off!

LOL!

I have sat in your seance, I have sat in others, this is exactly the conclusion I have arrived. If seance is only about survival evidence, then we can expect to spend 99% of our time wasted, waiting, waiting, waiting, for it especially with modern PM. Is spirit that stupid...or are we?"

I'd be interested in hearing which hundred people WJ put his question to and who the (quote) "...Modern Spiritualists mace..." were who "....spin like tops and blow their heads off." LOL indeed..... Laughing

Both he and Kai Muegge have a way with words but at least Muegge can claim that English isn't his first language.

by LeroyC Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:40 pm

Hi folks,

Well, some interesting stuff again on here. I have to agree about PM4U. To my mind it lost its way a long time ago. the funny thing is I cannot undertand what the hell Robin Foy is doing or is up to.

Quite some years ago he appeared to me to be quite a reasonably guy. I must wholeheartedy agree with Liz's comments on this matter.

Admin, you have put it in a nutshell, I quote:

"I thought the definition of Mediumship was to prove the continuing survival of the individual beyond the death of their physical body"

Yep, so did I !!. But the likes of Herr Muegge obviously think this is secondary concern. I can only conclude that the investigatiors looking at his mediumship have done a thorough job.

On a personal level I have never sat with the guy, nor do I particularly want to. These mediums should realise that once found out in fraud ( or at least the distinct possibility ) then their reputation forever is tarnished...Anders Akkesson is a prime example of this.

I don't altoghether hold with the theory of 'they can be genuine at times' ( proposed by Richet in the past in his examination of Palladino ), and by others. It may well be the case, but it ALWAYS raises doubts.

LeroyC

by mac Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:53 pm

Physical mediumship isn't a particular interest for me but from what I've read recently, and for some time before, it seems plain that individuals have different expectations of it.

I see mediumship as intended for certain purposes but solely, or primarily, to produce phenomena isn't one of them. But we can not be prescriptive - we feel one way and others feel another. That's taken me quite some time to accept.

As for 'mixed mediumship' (I think that's the term) - where a practitioner produces genuine, paranormal phenomena at times but at others plainly is cheating - I am persuaded by what I've heard.

I don't like what I hear but historically it's hardly unknown and I doubt that we're likely to see an end to the situation.

by carrsam Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:09 pm

Hello I have read all threads and looked in detail at the photos and found something that no one has spoken about .... Look at the photos again .
look at the close up of the mouth, there is no gap in the front teeth!!!!! but look at others the medium has a gap in his teeth ...
But the medium says this is his mouth, but its different . If he has misleading us with this what else??????
kind regards
Sam

by Admin Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:12 am

I will come back to this point from Sam but visiting his site I find he is a great supporter of the notorious Warren Caylor. http://felixcircle.blogspot.de/2008/05/warren-caylor-challenges-his-critics.html an old posting but still there. Gone now but the Wayback Machine wins again https://web.archive.org/web/20140624202700/http://felixcircle.blogspot.de/2008/05/warren-caylor-challenges-his-critics.html
Now at the end of this is a comment about warren offering a test séance to Psychic News. Now everyone knows how long ago this was and the fact that he opted out. https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t91-warren-caylor

Scary that Caylor, Muegge and Akesohn are such respected members of PM4U, I also understand there are strong reservations about the Moncabirol group. What must people like Scott Milligan and David Thompson feel about being seen as closely associated with them (remember we are told that Hans Bender came trough in a séance David held where Kai was present).

by LeroyC Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:00 am

Scary indeed admin. I sat with the aforementiond Caylor once....NEVER AGAIN !!!

LeroyC

by carrsam Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:28 am

Hello I have not sat in Scott milligan nor David Thompson's yet . But deeply disappointed with warren's and Kai was even more so ....
Why would you put on your web site these pictures with the teeth different and say its you. But people believe it .
I do not care if the seance is done in light or dark as long as there proof of life after death .....but of course light would be better .
Sam

by baumer7 Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:05 pm

Hello,
Nice to see you all again:-)! I hope you haven't forgotten me...I have so far been to a Caylor Seance, A Yuwipi Healing Ceremony(Warfield Moose), A trance demonstration (Audrey Wiley) & now a Muegge Seance. I have not yet seen anyone that has provided actual evidence. I still look forward to that day. Psychic mediums have, Physical Mediums, not. There has been no doubt that I have seen Physical Phenomena. IMO, It is a question of something being better than nothing. In all of these cases I am glad I went once & feel no need to see it again:-) I'll keep allowing myself opportunities, though. As far as Kai is concerned...I spent about 6 hours with him last Saturday night. 3 hours he was asleep & in his "quiet room." That was during the time that he was in trance during the seance. Hans Bender, his spirit guide was in control during that time. Anyway, the one thing I came away with that was positive this time was viewing the extrusion of ectoplasm from the medium. I sat to his left, next to one of his controls...maybe 3 feet from his mouth...actually he stepped on my foot a number of times...that's how close he was. So...I actually saw him pull the ectoplasm from his mouth & pile it on the floor in front of him. It had a musky smell of something that came from inside someones body(to be nice about it)...I'd say about 10 feet of it. It was moving & undulating in front of me like it was alive, which, of course, it is...(this was done in pretty decent red light...I could see well, no problem.) He pulled it up in a column at one point (sort of like pulling Turkish taffy) & it slowly solidified enough to hold it's form like that. He also touched the woman to my right's head with it...it was cold & wet. I felt her head right after he did this. Besides this...there was an apport dropped into a girls hand from Kai/Hans' hand...also right in front of my face...I was right there...it definitely happened. It fell from his outstretched flat hand into hers, about 2 feet from my face. Also spirit lights...green shooting around the room. Also white contained balls of flashing light..verrrrrry verrrry bright! Taps on the ceiling & walls..."touches" on the heads/shoulders/bodies of people in the circle. A glowing snakelike thing that crawled in front of me & into the circle very slowly, then shot up & out of sight...that's about all I remember...Afterwards & before we all met & spoke to Kai. He's a sweetheart! You couldn't help but love him. Just a nice person. I definitely didn't agree with him when discussing what is expected from PM. He sort of mocked (in a laughing manner) that his (The German Method)...was THE way & he even said "how much can you here of ? saying 'hello, things are great over here, Uncle ? says hello'' etc....Anyway, the ectoplasm demonstration alone, was well worth it! In conclusion, I'd say...he is genuine (I searched him before along with his clothes & led him into the room...& he was "controlled" on either side...we all held hands through the whole thing...no one could have caused any of the phenomena, but spirit...) Forgot to mention, spirit hands on a glowing square in the middle of the room along with glowing ping pong balls moving around...(in total blackout...only thing in red light was the apport & the ecto)
Any & all comments are welcome...you guys (here & in the SCR) gave me my "roots" in what to strive for!!!
Regards,
Steve

by carrsam Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:25 pm

Hi steve
Did you have to leave the room at the end on seance with the ectoplasm still on the floor ?

Also have you seen the photos from is site ? Regarding the difference in his teeth ?

by mac Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:13 pm

interesting account Steve - thanks

by baumer7 Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:19 pm

Hi Mac...how goes it:-)?
Hi Carrsam...Ecto still on floor when walking out. He has no gap in his teeth that I recall. When are the pics from that you see a gap? Actually...I just went to Facebook to see if I could see a recent pic...& I did...no gap...maybe I'll post it for you.

by baumer7 Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:28 pm

If you go here there's a pic from 4-6-14...no gap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201839474135663&set=t.100001929019291&type=3&theater

by mac Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:36 pm

baumer7 wrote:Hi Mac...how goes it:-)?
Hi Carrsam...Ecto still on floor when walking out. He has no gap in his teeth that I recall. When are the pics from that you see a gap? Actually...I just went to Facebook to see if I could see a recent pic...& I did...no gap...maybe I'll post it for you.

I'm OK thanks and just filling time nowadays. The link's here mouth and the last two photos show a small gap between the two front teeth - I hadn't seen it until it was pointed out.

by mac Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:37 pm

baumer7 wrote:If you go here there's a pic from 4-6-14...no gap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201839474135663&set=t.100001929019291&type=3&theater

I don't 'do' Facebook so I can't get to the page... Crying or Very sad

by carrsam Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:27 pm

The link show gaps in teeth and the close up shows no gap and look to be a females mouth .the photos are suppose to be taken one after the other .
So it's fake

by Petco Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:07 am

Here’s more about Muegge.

Those who read the Nahm paper

http://www.anomalistik.de/images/stories/pdf/sdm/sdm-2014-08-nahm.pdf Use this link https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291882678_The_Development_and_Phenomena_of_a_Circle_for_Physical_Mediumship

know that Muegge not only removed the posting about ectoplasm in white light from his blog after he was confronted with the cobweb. See my recent postings. Muegge also removed two postings from his blog that seemed to show how he used a prop called D’Lite Flight after Nahm has asked him if he had ever used it.

Nahm provided an active link on web.archive.org to one of these removed postings. To view this posting scroll down at

http://web.archive.org/web/20130414135033/http://felixcircle.blogspot.de

Checking the net I found that the second of the removed Muegge postings was conserved by a web.archive snapshot as well. See

http://web.archive.org/web/20110811133923/http://felixcircle.blogspot.com/

Six photos show a red light.
The first one shows this pulsating light moving in an arc around the area of Muegge’s right thumb similar to Fig. 3 in the Nahm paper. Click on the photo in this posting for an enlarged view and you’ll see Muegge’s right hand and thumb.
Photos 4 and 5 show how this light rises from Muegge’s left hand.

Now compare all these photos to youtube clips that feature the D’Lite Flight, e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84B2QWIqD0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Le62OMR6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VQZI_DOfrw

See any difference?
I don’t.

by Admin Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:19 am

baumer7 wrote:Hi Mac...how goes it:-)?
Hi Carrsam...Ecto still on floor when walking out. He has no gap in his teeth that I recall. When are the pics from that you see a gap? Actually...I just went to Facebook to see if I could see a recent pic...& I did...no gap...maybe I'll post it for you.

Hi Steve,

Been a long time but its good to see you on here again.

What you describe and the fact it was still there when you left the room is very unlike any recorded "ectoplasm". Now Kai has nicely rendered any negative arguments invalid by rewriting all the "rules" on PM even though there is 150+ years experience with it.

What you saw was very similar to what the two researchers have described in their research on Kai. Now they have rejected his work and the description of the "cobweb" used is startlingly similar to your experience. It would be well worth your while reading their meticulously researched papers.

I am still very concerned about Kai's ultimate plans. Whilst people buy his work as genuine and the two researchers have difficulties making their results change opinions I suspect he will continue giving séances around the world. Its a great life and a decent living so why not, even if the earnings per séance are declining as the supply of physical "mediums" increase. However, I always will go back to where the project started to make a film. I suspect when it hits it will give the medium sceptics a free kick revealing just how well he took in all the physical medium junkies, how he did it and everything he knows about the other high profile "mediums".

Could be interesting times especially as Kai is such a star on PM4U. I concur with Lis's summation of Kai's version of PM as posted on here; Gibberish. However, its appealing to some and allows him to pull just about any stunt in his mediumship.

Jim

by carrsam Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:54 am

Hi I'm new to this site so have to wait to add a link to the photos I talk about but I've started to make a noise on pm4u so people to wake up to this ....... He has put on line these photo and saying this is what happened when he can out of a deep meditation. Grab his phone in light and took these pics of his mouth and there is teeth difference ............. So he has lied about it so it brings into question the rest of this mediumship.

by carrsam Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:15 am

Warren has put this on the same link I put on pm4u .

Permalink Reply by warren caylor 1 hour ago
This is due to a number of things ( Having sat with Kai many times ) the first stage of his ectoplasm is formed at the back of the mouth, it comes through the gums and can be heard doing so by way of a crakling sound. Once this has taken place the ectoplasm is gathered in and around both the teeth and gum area, I have seen the scar where it comes from, at the back of his mouth. I am also aware, having spoken with Hanz ( Kais main spirit control) that once it has gathered it literaly fills the entire gum area, back, front and both sides , and have also been told that a very thin veil of ectoplasm is placed over the teeth until it is extruded or pulled form the mouth area. Hecne the pic with no gap!!......I don not know if you have sat with Kai and Julia, but if you have not done so then I would highly recommend it. The limited knowledge I have is based entirely of self experience, and it is with this that I can attempt to answer your question, go and see him for yourself, I promise you wont be disappointed.
▶ Reply

What a load of rubbish

by obiwan Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:00 am

carrsam wrote:Warren has put this on the same link I put on pm4u .

Permalink Reply by warren caylor 1 hour ago
This is due to a number of things ( Having sat with Kai many times ) the first stage of his ectoplasm is formed at the back of the mouth, it comes through the gums and can be heard doing so by way of a crakling sound. Once this has taken place the ectoplasm is gathered in and around both the teeth and gum area, I have seen the scar where it comes from, at the back of his mouth. I am also aware, having spoken with Hanz ( Kais main spirit control) that once it has gathered it literaly fills the entire gum area, back, front and both sides , and have also been told that a very thin veil of ectoplasm is placed over the teeth until it is extruded or pulled form the mouth area. Hecne the pic with no gap!!......I don not know if you have sat with Kai and Julia, but if you have not done so then I would highly recommend it. The limited knowledge I have is based entirely of self experience, and it is with this that I can attempt to answer your question, go and see him for yourself, I promise you wont be disappointed.
▶ Reply

What a load of rubbish

Why do you say it is a load of rubbish?

by carrsam Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:35 am

obiwan wrote:
carrsam wrote:Warren has put this on the same link I put on pm4u .

Permalink Reply by warren caylor 1 hour ago
This is due to a number of things ( Having sat with Kai many times ) the first stage of his ectoplasm is formed at the back of the mouth, it comes through the gums and can be heard doing so by way of a crakling sound. Once this has taken place the ectoplasm is gathered in and around both the teeth and gum area, I have seen the scar where it comes from, at the back of his mouth. I am also aware, having spoken with Hanz ( Kais main spirit control) that once it has gathered it literaly fills the entire gum area, back, front and both sides , and have also been told that a very thin veil of ectoplasm is placed over the teeth until it is extruded or pulled form the mouth area. Hecne the pic with no gap!!......I don not know if you have sat with Kai and Julia, but if you have not done so then I would highly recommend it. The limited knowledge I have is based entirely of self experience, and it is with this that I can attempt to answer your question, go and see him for yourself, I promise you wont be disappointed.
▶ Reply

What a load of rubbish

Please tell me in history having a pm me having ectoplasm changing the teeth.........

Why do you say it is a load of rubbish?

by obiwan Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:42 pm

carrsam wrote:
obiwan wrote:
carrsam wrote:Warren has put this on the same link I put on pm4u .

Permalink Reply by warren caylor 1 hour ago
This is due to a number of things ( Having sat with Kai many times ) the first stage of his ectoplasm is formed at the back of the mouth, it comes through the gums and can be heard doing so by way of a crakling sound. Once this has taken place the ectoplasm is gathered in and around both the teeth and gum area, I have seen the scar where it comes from, at the back of his mouth. I am also aware, having spoken with Hanz ( Kais main spirit control) that once it has gathered it literaly fills the entire gum area, back, front and both sides , and have also been told that a very thin veil of ectoplasm is placed over the teeth until it is extruded or pulled form the mouth area. Hecne the pic with no gap!!......I don not know if you have sat with Kai and Julia, but if you have not done so then I would highly recommend it. The limited knowledge I have is based entirely of self experience, and it is with this that I can attempt to answer your question, go and see him for yourself, I promise you wont be disappointed.
▶ Reply

What a load of rubbish

Please tell me in history having a pm me having ectoplasm changing the teeth.........

Why do you say it is a load of rubbish?

Sorry I don't understand your question. If you mean "when in history has ectoplasm ever changed someone's teeth", then I'd be surprised if it has ever been mentioned.

However, there is a full explanation given. What is it about the explanation, apart from the fact that you have never heard it before, that leads you to dismiss it as rubbish?

For the record, I have no personal view on the matter.

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