Re: Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge

by mac Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:44 am

On a side-issue, whatever happened to former physical mediumship expert and contributor MU?

by Admin Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:43 am

He seemed to become many people and much sought after a bit like a where's Wally cartoon. Given all the trouble that came out of contact with whoever they were and wherever they went onto I am glad they have moved on.

by Lis Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:09 am

Admin wrote:

I would like to look more into the drugs issue especially having seen Kai's two documentaries on the seamy and dangerous trade in Hamburg. I always wondered is the suggested use of mind altering substances a general part of his life, are there specific materials and is he trying to use anything specific to repeat a Shamanic drug induced trance before his demonstrations. I am not sure we will ever truly know, unless Kai discloses on the subject, because there is bound to be a lack of hard evidence to support any of these possible scenarios.

Hmm a whole lot of issues how far may the ripples from this extend amongst other mediums on PM4U. I am sure if he is pushed too hard any video expose he released about Physical Mediumship would be quite explosive.

An interesting, and as it happens quite a pertinent remark Jim, regarding the use by Muegge of mind altering substances before his so-called physical séances. In recent months the rumour is, and I have heard it now from more than half a dozen different and independent sources, and most trustworthy sources they are, that Muegge may well partake of several such substances to 'enhance' his performance in the séance room. It seems this habit may, indeed, not be restricted to his activities in his own home country, but extend to his activities in other countries he has visited.

Bearing in mind Muegge's professed interest in the "shamanic" traditions, many of which included the use of mind altering substances, and considering a more modern drug that some have viewed as offering the potential for "spiritual" experiences, one might suggest that the mind altering substance of choice may be Lysergic acid diethylamide, or to use its more common name, LSD. Rumour has it that such a substance, in combination with the smoking of a certain 'weed,' is an essential pre-requisite for the man's ability to do whatever it is that he is doing in the séance room.

If such is the case, one must really ask whether this person is in a fit mental state to claim he is working with the spirit world to produce non-proof-of-survival-physical phenomena. Perhaps even more important is whether the paying customers would want to be paying their hard-earned money to see a person purporting to be working with spirit when in fact they up to their eyeballs in illicit mind altering drugs.

At the very least, Mr Muegge ought to be telling his paying customers that he will be affected by mind altering drugs during his séance and therefore that what the paying customer is getting may not in reality be what they think their getting. And that is quite apart from the issue that such substances and the use of them is illegal, and perhaps we should be asking whether by their use in a situation where people are paying him, constitutes a deliberate act of deception and fraud.

That, coupled with the fact that this person is also known to have fraudulently used magic tricks, and false 'ectoplasm' in his performances, must surely cause any right thinking person to be very wary of placing any trust or faith in Kai Muegge, however strongly committed to a belief in physical mediumship they might be.

by Lis Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:19 am

In reality, the physical mediumship community is rather small and word really does get about regarding various so-called physical mediums and their habits.

It seems that the medium under discussion here may indeed not be the only one to use illegal substances before giving their performances to the paying public. In the not too distant past two French mediums while entertaining the believers in Australia appear to have been kept well-supplied in their drug of choice, they partaking of it before every séance and undoubtedly after too.

What I find disturbing in relation to all these proclaimed mediums is that there appear to be people in the countries where they visit willing to supply them with their required substances. Now, those who supply the substances well know the use to which they will be put, and therefore must be viewed as complicit in the deception that takes place.

Surely it is time that people turned their backs on those who would deceive the public in this way.

by Admin Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:22 am

Hmm good points Lis and if it was to become common knowledge I would suspect that, especially when he is overseas, he might start to get visits by the authorities to check up on this. Now with all the drug sniffing/drug checking at customs one has to wonder whether this is carried about or procured locally in the countries he visits. Big questions with no obvious answers just suspicions and pretty credible reports. Clearly, if true, countries like Australia and the USA would be hard to get visas to travel into.

This shamanistic tradition is very odd given I ( and you and almost every teacher I have met) have based all of my work (and teaching) on a no alcohol and as I do not take them no drugs basis. From the earliest day's of the Spiritualist movement this was almost a commandment from Spirit. It can be hard to pick up Spirit and ensure that your own sub conscious mind is not inventing things when your mind is clear, once you are under the influence of any substance the ability to differentiate would become minimal. Then the ability of your mind to co create from the subterraneous depths of your subconscious expands rapidly. God knows what might be lurking there but I do not think God or Spirit would be actively participating.

by Lis Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:03 am

It is interesting to take a little look at Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD). It is, of course, classed as a "psychedelic" drug, well known for its psychological effects. In particular, those effects can (and usually do) include altered thinking processes, visual hallucinations (when eyes are closed and open) synaesthesia, an altered sense of time and mental experiences that LSD users may interpret as "spiritual."

LSD alters some of the basic reality-organising and testing systems of the mind. The mental effects known to be caused by the use of LSD include delusions, an artificial sense of euphoria or certainty, paranoia, feelings of grandiosity, and omnipotent beliefs.

Physical effects, often progressively obvious when someone is an habitual user include pupil dilation, reduced or increased appetite, wakefulness or sleeplessness, profuse sweating, mouth dryness and an increased heart rate.

Curiously, some research indicates that chronic users of LSD may become interested in cosmology and feel they have the power to become mediums, though there is no evidence to support the idea that they actually do become capable of mediumistic behaviour. In other words, the belief appears to be delusional.

While LSD is non-addictive, because it accumulates in the body, users develop a tolerance for the drug and therefore progressively need to ingest more in order to get the same effects. This has a corresponding risk, that is, to increase the potential for adverse psychiatric reactions, especially delusions.

I understand, from various material seen on the internet that Mr Muegge certainly appears to suffer from some of the symptoms listed, in particular, inability to sleep, profuse sweating, mouth dryness, and one might think that his bizarre versions of what physical mediumship is about also reflect delusions and omnipotent beliefs. Perhaps someone who has an opportunity should consider testing that water bottle so much relied on by Muegge in the séance room, or, monitor his behaviour prior to any séance he holds to observe what he might be ingesting.

by Mark74 Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:51 am

Mayday! Mayday! Someones ship is going under Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge - Page 9 593759

by obiwan Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:54 am

Mark74 wrote:Mayday! Mayday! Someones ship is going under

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? Very Happy

by Mark74 Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:15 am

obiwan wrote:
Mark74 wrote:Mayday! Mayday! Someones ship is going under

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

I'm just smelling a rat

by mac Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:21 pm

Let's not lose sight here that Jim's well-researched material and the observations he and Lis have made are (thus far) unproven concerning KM - other reasons could apply in connection with what's been observed about him....

I'm no supporter of, or defender for, the guy but some of the suggestions put forward in this thread are pretty condemning and might be seen as defamatory until sound supporting evidence has been produced.

by Admin Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:04 am

A good point Mac, whilst we have made strong points we have tried to maintain a position that is Fair Comment. Should Kai wish to reply we would gladly let him do so, provided it met guidelines.

Lis an I felt compelled to publish this matter of public interest because of the material we have received since this matter was first published by Eternal Truth and then Hermann. We have had so much material that it is clear these rumours are well known both within the strong clique of physical mediumship and in the wider public arena.

I am not sure what could flow from all of this, but it is clear that were an action for defamation taken then all of the evidence would come into the light of day. This would involve, of course, the past activities of the medium and potentially blood tests as a residual marker remains for a long time in the blood.

My suspicion is this thread on the forum will not hamper or affect Kai's activities in any way, the believers will continue to believe and may be more vociferous in their support. Indeed from my reading, in the research I was doing, of some of the believers interest and the willingness of the New Age Metaphysical Spiritual Churches there are many who would welcome someone experimenting in this way. Indeed it may appear that in this arena mediumship while under the influence (of drugs or alcohol) may not be frowned on at all and some are experimenting with the type of drugs used by Medicine Men to achieve similar results.

by mac Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:09 am

Admin wrote:A good point Mac, whilst we have made strong points we have tried to maintain a position that is Fair Comment. Should Kai wish to reply we would gladly let him do so, provided it met guidelines.

Lis an I felt compelled to publish this matter of public interest because of the material we have received since this matter was first published by Eternal Truth and then Hermann. We have had so much material that it is clear these rumours are well known both within the strong clique of physical mediumship and in the wider public arena.

I am not sure what will flow from all of this, were an action for defamation taken then all of the evidence would come into the light of day. This would involve, of course, the past activities of the medium and potentially blood tests as a residual marker remains for a long time in the blood.

My suspicion is this thread on the forum will not hamper or affect Kai's activities in any way, the believers will continue to believe and may be more vociferous in their support. Indeed from my reading, in the research I was doing, of some of the believers interest and the willingness of the New Age Metaphysical Spiritual Churches there are many who would welcome someone experimenting in this way. Indeed it may appear that in this arena mediumship while under the influence (of drugs or alcohol) may not be frowned on at all and some are experimenting with the type of drugs used by Medicine Men to achieve similar results.

I don't disagree with any of the points you've made, Jim. Oh how I wish things were different - I must be getting old (I am!) wishing for a time when things probably weren't any better anyway!! Laughing

by mac Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:10 am

Admin wrote:A good point Mac, whilst we have made strong points we have tried to maintain a position that is Fair Comment. Should Kai wish to reply we would gladly let him do so, provided it met guidelines.

Lis an I felt compelled to publish this matter of public interest because of the material we have received since this matter was first published by Eternal Truth and then Hermann. We have had so much material that it is clear these rumours are well known both within the strong clique of physical mediumship and in the wider public arena.

I am not sure what will flow from all of this, were an action for defamation taken then all of the evidence would come into the light of day. This would involve, of course, the past activities of the medium and potentially blood tests as a residual marker remains for a long time in the blood.

My suspicion is this thread on the forum will not hamper or affect Kai's activities in any way, the believers will continue to believe and may be more vociferous in their support. Indeed from my reading, in the research I was doing, of some of the believers interest and the willingness of the New Age Metaphysical Spiritual Churches there are many who would welcome someone experimenting in this way. Indeed it may appear that in this arena mediumship while under the influence (of drugs or alcohol) may not be frowned on at all and some are experimenting with the type of drugs used by Medicine Men to achieve similar results.

I won't be holding my breath while waiting for KM to respond to your invitation.... Laughing

by Lis Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:08 am

Mac, I appreciate your concerns, however, I can only say that the comments I posted were only done so after a great deal of consideration and reflection on the various reports I had received each from individuals who either had no knowledge of each other or had no knowledge that others also were aware of the matters about which they expressed their concerns.

The difficulty for many, it seems, is a fear to speak out openly on such issues. There appears to be a genuine fear of retaliation from some quarters of the physical mediumship community. To risk being excluded from the séances of others because of expressing views considered 'unacceptable' or 'disruptive,' despite they being what are considered genuine concerns that impact significantly on the validity of physical mediumship, is a strong motivator for many to remain silent. There is, to be frank, also on the part of some, a fear of some form of physical retaliation if they spoke out publicly.

Ultimately I felt that the matters raised constituted information in the general interest of the public, and in particular, the interests of those who believe in physical mediumship. If Kai Muegge wishes to refute the suggestions he is, of course, entitled to so do, however, in terms of any considerations regarding the issue of 'defamation' it must be said that action along those lines could only succeed if what is suggested is entirely false. I fear that to prove that would be very difficult indeed.

by mac Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:04 pm

Lis wrote:Mac, I appreciate your concerns, however, I can only say that the comments I posted were only done so after a great deal of consideration and reflection on the various reports I had received each from individuals who either had no knowledge of each other or had no knowledge that others also were aware of the matters about which they expressed their concerns.

The difficulty for many, it seems, is a fear to speak out openly on such issues. There appears to be a genuine fear of retaliation from some quarters of the physical mediumship community. To risk being excluded from the séances of others because of expressing views considered 'unacceptable' or 'disruptive,' despite they being what are considered genuine concerns that impact significantly on the validity of physical mediumship, is a strong motivator for many to remain silent. There is, to be frank, also on the part of some, a fear of some form of physical retaliation if they spoke out publicly.

Ultimately I felt that the matters raised constituted information in the general interest of the public, and in particular, the interests of those who believe in physical mediumship. If Kai Muegge wishes to refute the suggestions he is, of course, entitled to so do, however, in terms of any considerations regarding the issue of 'defamation' it must be said that action along those lines could only succeed if what is suggested is entirely false. I fear that to prove that would be very difficult indeed.

Thanks, Lis. I appreciate and agree with all the points you've made and understand your concern which I also share. I was mindful of the situation you faced a few years back, though, when something on these boards had to be withdrawn for fear of legal action - I've forgotten the details now.

It's a disgrace that physical mediumship is being misrepresented by the individuals who appear to be making a very good living from their performances. I meant to add that whatever we might say I doubt that any notice will be taken or, perhaps worse than ever, it may spark even more interest in going to see the practitioners in question. No such thing as bad publicity? Seems that way thus far....

by dont-like-frauds Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:32 am

Hello,

i´m back and i couldn´t post for a while, because not only some posts of mine were deleted, i even had been banned from the forum and i can understand this.

This is a high quality forum and it should remain like this, even if the emotions are coming through.
So i can take the term „angry man“, not in general, but in this case, because what happened still makes me angry, even after three years. I wear my heart on my mouth. Spirit has a high value for me and it´s just hard to see how people abuse it or better say: try to abuse, because in the end truth will reveal. We´ll all see one day again..
Nevertheless, when i´m angry it can happen, that i bite the wrong one´s, and so Lis and Michael i honestly apologize for getting „loud“. If Lis and Jim wouldn´t run this forum and Michael hasn´t been so brave to publish his high quality report about the "Muegge case", we weren´t there, where we are now. So, i feel really sorry´ if i hurt someone.
Every question, which have been adressed to me here, open drawels to me, full of experience i would like to bring into the discussion to show what´s going on. If Muegge has gone, others will probably appear. There seems to be specific patterns, which could be worked out.

So let me go back to the „angry man“ and give you an example, if i´m allowed to. Then i will make the link to the topic.
Years ago, i have been cheated by a „financial guru“, named Markus Frick (MF). Not only me, but thousands of other people, too. He was a guest in the most important talk shows, he even had his own TV-show and he filled the city hall in Frankfurt in minutes so that they had to bring additional chairs. Later, no-one dare to talk publicly about being cheated, only „angry man“ Hermann did it. I knew, that i would take the derision of some people about that, but i didn´t care. It interested me as much as a bag of rice falling on the floor in china. So, there was a bit of anger probably needed to stand up and face these people.
You can see it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtZLHwVdqqo

I admit, if i were MF and met me in this mood, i would just run. Funny enough, that part of this interview were filmed in our livingroom, where Muegge performed his show.
This MF continued his cheating, but the second time (he did this big thing again), the authorities were awake and now MF is having his breakfast in jail for a longer time.

There are a few links to our case. For many people it´s obviously hard to take, that they have been cheated, too. It´s not easy for our ego to admit that. In the MF-case it´s suddenly easy to realize, that you have been cheated, when you see, that your money has gone. In our case, the evidences of cheating are not so easy to work out. And if you´ve worked it out, you get insulted from the other side like it happended to Michael Nahm.

This guy MF worked with many psychological tricks, too: For example, he let his mother sell his books at his big performances in front of thousands of people and talkes about, how she didn´t believe him before, that he could be successful with his „work“.
This touches you emotionally and who would believe, that this good son would lie?

So, back to our case. What does Kai Muegge do? Please look here:

http://felixcircle.blogspot.de/2013/06/mediums-mother-reports-her-birthday.html

Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge - Page 9 Elke13

Investigation into the Mediumship of Kai Muegge - Page 9 Elke13

He "presents" his mother, too and who would believe, that such a lovely son could be cheating? You get conflicts with your conscience, if you think like this....

by Admin Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:26 am

Thank you DLF welcome back, for an "angry man" you presented that without anger in a way that is so real. Thank you

by obiwan Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:02 am

Hi DLF

I think it is perfectly natural to be angry when one is treated in this way and trust is abused.

Fraudsters often abuse the trust and goodwill of their victims and this is very painful because it affects people psychologically as well as materially.

In the wider sense every act like this removes a little more innocence and trust from the world and has a tendency to make us more suspicious of others and less inclined to kindness if we allow it.

It is important to express your anger of course, but don't hang on to it for too long.

by Jane Lyzell Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:33 am

mac wrote:
bravo321uk wrote:I seen the link on pm4u and knew it wouldnt stay long.. and as we all know with new blogs it will be a long while before google finds them,,,, hence why I posted it here.. and true enough I had a look this morning and it was gone... When I look at these pics there are lots of things that disturb me... not just the thumbs... why are the eyes of the "medium" open at points almost like he is watching the "show" why is there a bottle of water between his feet? what on earth is that white material between his feet.. is it a towel or is it meant to be ectoplasm... why is there a bucket by the side of him... to me these pics look like a man that is surrounded by props with a bottle of water for when he gets thirsty...

I'm pleased I remembered to take the precaution of downloading and saving the page for later reference.

Nothing stays long in negativ terms in Robin Foy´s forum - he is holding there backs Evil or Very Mad

by Jane Lyzell Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:55 am

Admin wrote:Thanks for drawing that to our attention bravo.

I have just made the old topic about Anders Akesohn resurface https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t966-swedish-medium-caught-cheating

There are a number of items of interest in that thread, we get a clearer picture of Kai from his defence of Anders, who would probably have been a friend, and his debate with zerdini. We also see a first mention of love or spirit lights which raises the question of the D'Lites being already in use by Anders as an admitted cheat, could that be where Kai learned to use them? Oh it also shows the absolute position of accepting anyone who claims physical mediumship, caught cheating or not, that PM4U takes.

I would like to look more into the drugs issue especially having seen Kai's two documentaries on the seamy and dangerous trade in Hamburg. I always wondered is the suggested use of mind altering substances a general part of his life, are there specific materials and is he trying to use anything specific to repeat a Shamanic drug induced trance before his demonstrations. I am not sure we will ever truly know, unless Kai discloses on the subject, because there is bound to be a lack of hard evidence to support any of these possible scenarios.

Hmm a whole lot of issues how far may the ripples from this extend amongst other mediums on PM4U. I am sure if he is pushed too hard any video expose he released about Physical Mediumship would be quite explosive.

Anbders Åkesson is still doing physical seanses and are working whit Gary Mannion. and hee is taking Anders to england and demonstrait physical mediumship Evil or Very Mad

http://www.spiritual.se/kurs.htm - Garys home page is not up ? so https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1069124711 - and I gess on PM4U Anders still goth his mebership and groupe fore his froude Evil or Very Mad

by Jane Lyzell Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:56 am

Jane Lyzell wrote:
Admin wrote:Thanks for drawing that to our attention bravo.

I have just made the old topic about Anders Akesohn resurface https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t966-swedish-medium-caught-cheating

There are a number of items of interest in that thread, we get a clearer picture of Kai from his defence of Anders, who would probably have been a friend, and his debate with zerdini. We also see a first mention of love or spirit lights which raises the question of the D'Lites being already in use by Anders as an admitted cheat, could that be where Kai learned to use them? Oh it also shows the absolute position of accepting anyone who claims physical mediumship, caught cheating or not, that PM4U takes.

I would like to look more into the drugs issue especially having seen Kai's two documentaries on the seamy and dangerous trade in Hamburg. I always wondered is the suggested use of mind altering substances a general part of his life, are there specific materials and is he trying to use anything specific to repeat a Shamanic drug induced trance before his demonstrations. I am not sure we will ever truly know, unless Kai discloses on the subject, because there is bound to be a lack of hard evidence to support any of these possible scenarios.

Hmm a whole lot of issues how far may the ripples from this extend amongst other mediums on PM4U. I am sure if he is pushed too hard any video expose he released about Physical Mediumship would be quite explosive.

Anbders Åkesson is still doing physical seanses and are working whit Gary Mannion. and hee is taking Anders to england and demonstrait physical mediumship http://www.spiritual.se/kurs.htm - Garys home page is not up ? so https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1069124711 - and I gess on PM4U Anders still goth his mebership and groupe fore his froude

Robin foy is washing them cleener then white Evil or Very Mad

by Jane Lyzell Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:59 am

bravo321uk wrote:Also the obsession with trying to recreate pictures of the past.. and the constant showing his own pics next to these... a look through his blog shows this.. to me the spirit world has a greater intelligence than ours.. and in recreating these pictures like for like its not showing this... Instead its showing ego and a individuals need of being excepted... almost in a "you called all of these great and I can do them, so i must be great" kind of way.. But instead to me it shows the opposite.. Its like apple going back to the iphone 1 after the iphone 6 and saying look what we have got for you.. That simply wouldnt be progress and neither is this...

This is somthing I have questioned for a looooong time

by Jane Lyzell Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:09 pm

Lis wrote:In reality, the physical mediumship community is rather small and word really does get about regarding various so-called physical mediums and their habits.

It seems that the medium under discussion here may indeed not be the only one to use illegal substances before giving their performances to the paying public. In the not too distant past two French mediums while entertaining the believers in Australia appear to have been kept well-supplied in their drug of choice, they partaking of it before every séance and undoubtedly after too.

What I find disturbing in relation to all these proclaimed mediums is that there appear to be people in the countries where they visit willing to supply them with their required substances. Now, those who supply the substances well know the use to which they will be put, and therefore must be viewed as complicit in the deception that takes place.

Surely it is time that people turned their backs on those who would deceive the public in this way.

I´m shookt to here this - ore not - how can people suport there drugatic. shame on them Crying or Very sad

by Lis Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:12 pm

Hi don't-like-frauds,

It seems you have had some hard times in the past, and your experience with the Felix Experimental Group sadly also proved very disturbing as well.

As Obiwan so rightly comments, when one has anger at having experienced injustice, it is important to feel safe to express it, but it is also so very important to find the ways forward to not let that anger stay in one's heart.

Yet, to speak out against injustice and wrong conduct is important, especially when in doing so it is a way to help others to prevent being hurt as you have been.

All the best,

Lis

by Jane Lyzell Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:28 pm

Hi don't-like-frauds

I do now what you are goes through- I have satt whit Anders Åkesson Evil or Very Mad

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