Hey

bravo321uk wrote:Hi Jon, I was going to ignore your input, But now your being insulting to folk and thats not nice.

I haven't insulted anyone? I have stated facts, and dealt with the troll Lars who only joined to attack me.
Everything else I have said has been truthful statements

Now I dont know you and have no any intention of getting to know you as I believe that I have found out all I need to know from what I have read here.

That is a sad attitude to take

So lets see we have a very competitive man who enjoys Beating people with type speak on the internet.

Not at all, in fact I like nothing more than someone who leaves me speechless, or leaves me in awe.
But for me its not about who wins a conversation on the net, afterall we are just text on a screen, its not real life, and i get little enjoyment out of making someone less intelligent than me look foolish, how could i?

I want intelligent conversation from people with differing beliefs to my own, sometimes i find it sometimes I dont, thats life.
Usually those with the largest mouths in forums like this are often the least educated and most blinkered.

We have a Man that actually tried to develop Mediumship/Psychic.

We have a Man that comes out with all the cold reading/hot reading stuff thats been said a million times before.

I have actually clearly stated that the term cold reading is a catch all term used by skeptics and one that I try not to use myself as I do not believe it correctly conveys what mediums are doing.

I am guessing you have not actually read properly anything I have said and instead have inserted yourself into some kind of protector of the forum out to stop the big nasty Jon. Sorry but that just wont work.

Psychologically Speaking Those 3 statements spell out all I need know about you and tell a very interesting story.

Statements which are partially incorrect due to you not reading and understanding things I have said, that is interesting as is your jump to judgement and misrepresentation of my position, instead of getting to know me, you have close-mindedly made your mind up from 3 statements you have made up.

Just imagine if science worked like your brain does, we would never invent anything, we would never evolve our understanding of the universe, hell we would still be living in the trees!

I am sorry you were not a very good medium, but not every one can develop to a high standard.

Erm not a very good medium? I was top of my class, I was the best damned "medium" in the group and I never cheated (despite knowing better than most how to) You see this is what happens when someone makes assumptions and judgements based on 3 small statements. You make yourself look foolish as well as unprepared.

To this day the teacher is still convinced I had genuine mediumship abilities, and when word of how good I had done went round the community at the time, I was invited to further develop with other groups. I declined for obvious reasons.

I know you were not at a high standard by the way you look at things with cold reading. It tell me thats what you did and you know it.

Again where are you getting this opinion of me from?
You are misrepresenting me and getting confused it seems.

But with that competitive nature of yours it must of really hurt you not being at a high enough standard to "compete" after all you have to win.

But I was the best, this is all in my 7 page featured article in the respected magazine The Skeptic!
I chose not to continue for obvious moral and ethical reasons.

And if you cant win... there must of course be a reason huh? so every1 must be a fake like you.

Your psychological profile of me is rather poor and I suggest going back to the drawing board, that or do some research, otherwise you really are making things too easy for me.

You talk about people coming out with the same old stuff, But so do you. its all been heard before long before you were born.
James randi challenge.. you know that no one will win that the same as the victor zammit one.. no one will win that either. so lets be fair they both cancel each other out.

Well that shows a lack of understanding of both challenges.
Randis challenge is in fact incredibly easy to pass.

you claim to be so good at this stuff,, and yet your clinging to the stuff people been saying for years its not new.. Kinda sounds like the stuff you say about us Mediums doesnt it.

And there we have it, the cat is out of the bag, you are a medium! No wonder you got so much wrong about me! Afterall if you were the real deal you would already know my motivations as well as my history.

You are a medium, you see me as a skeptic, and automatically you go into attack mode, "MUST SILENCE THE EVIL SKEPTIC" it is this attitude that furthers the divide between believers and non believers.

Now you see I quite like Talking to Sceptics.. if its a balanced conversation and if its a real debate, but thats not what you bring here.

If you like balanced conversations, then why do you attack without knowing what or who you are attacking?
As for why I am here, the admin on this forum was talking about me, I was notified I came to investigate, and was invited to contribute to the forum, which is what I am doing for the moment.

So why are you here? oh I forgot to win. Well spiritualism is over 100 years old and will still be here in 100 years, and this is a spiritualist forum.

Thats correct, spiritualism was born out of two fraudulent sisters the Fox Sisters, and since then there has been fraud at every turn, from Daniel Dunglas Home and his magic tricks, to Helen Duncun and her dolls, to Doris Stokes and her plants, all the way to modern frauds like Colin Fry, Derek Acorah and Sally Morgan.

You must feel great to be part of such a dishonest INDUSTRY! Will spiritualism still be with us in 100 years? Most likely, I would hope that all religion is gone in 100 years and that man kind has evolved to the position of atheism and science, but there will always be people in society who either want to make a buck out of other people, or people who just cannot deal with the harsh realities of life.

"That which we do not understand we worship"

So im sorry friend, you cannot win, In time your site and your name will simply fall into cyber emptiness..

I dont need to win, as for my name and my site, they are not real, I dont need them to live forever, when I die, thats it, I am dead, so I wont care.

and if your right in your view that there is not an afterlife then so will you, Which will kind of make this all pointless, which seems kind of sad. But spiritualism will live on through its history and books and mediums will continue to give evidence of life continuation, it will never be forgotten. so you see. you cannot win, so I guess it will be spiritualism Kicking your behind.

No medium has ever proven mediumship, and what you class as evidence is just convincing someone, just liek a magician convinces someone that a ball has vanished or that they are levitating. all smoke and mirrors.


As for spiritualism kicking my behind, lol will never happen.

The SNU once reffered to me as "The single biggest threat to spiritualism since Houdini" I laughed when I heard that, but it also proved that I was making an impact, these days I think much differently, but the idea that spiritualism will ever prove me wrong? well i would love that to happen.

Already had 2 members here message me about you Alun!
VERY interesting reading, it seems.
Lots of sitting around in the dark pulling funny faces! lol, Reminds me of a certain middle aged housewife from the spiritlove forum!

JonDonnis wrote: people who directly profit from the fraud of Flint and his ilk dont like it!

who?

Lars

JonDonnis wrote:

Lars wrote:Jon Donnis coniunes lies. I make no money from Leslie Flint. If Flint fraud prove it not more posion of lies and blithers.

LIE

Lars

"coniunes", "posion" and "blithers"

I will assume this means continues, poison and erm....?????? Blithers???

You might no make money from Flint but you boss does!! ;-)

who this boss?

More Jon Donnis lies.

Lars

Okay going to post this then stay off this thread, it's getting crazy in here!

Jon said
So obviously this has happened before then, someone you thought was genuine has been shown to be a fraud, can I ask who?

Colin Fry

Also no interest in your personal belief in an afterlife, but please do not use the word evidence, as you have not had evidence, you have been convinced very different.

It doesn't matter to me that you have no interest in my personal belief in an afterlife, because you need proof, and I can't give that to you.

But I am going to keep an open mind, can you?


Okay so tell me why you think there is no mediumship, and also I want to know more about how you conned people, without cheating?

While you were on the medium course.

I can't get the 7 page info on your time spent at the medium course, would have to subscribe The Sceptic (volume 21 #4 winter 2008)

can you post me the information please?


What do you know about this? you say "trust me"

Jon said
Because it is blooming obvious thats why, why would an ape like us who have only been alive on this planet for a mere fraction of its existence have any kind of importance compared to say a cockroach that has lived on the planet for millions and millions of years unchanged.
If there is an afterlife, Cockroach is king, not humans! So yeah very arrogant to believe in an afterlife in my opinion.

I



I dont need experiences to think about the possibility of life after death. In fact this athiest prays to god every night that he is wrong about the afterlife, because the last thing I want is to die and thats it.


I was trying to be funny with that comment, obviously went over your head.
Irony?

Yes, I apologise, I was stirring it up a bit!

Already had 2 members here message me about you Alun!
VERY interesting reading, it seems.
Lots of sitting around in the dark pulling funny faces! lol, Reminds me of a certain middle aged housewife from the spiritlove forum!

Jon
Your Entitled to your opinion, I only have the opinions of those that have sat with me as I have never witnessed it myself. From what they say I do not sit around pulling faces.
As for receiving Messages about me, At least I was worth the message and opinion I suppose lol

Jon it is clear that you do not want to stay long on this site but it may have been interesting if you toned down.YOU CAN SHOUT AS LOUD AS YOU LIKE but you will never be able to convince me that what I have actually seen and done is not real.

I truly understand Marcello Truzzi's objections to your brand od pseudo scepticism https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2042-psychical-research-versus-pseudo-skepticism You do not go into anything with an open mind.

Now please cease insulting members of this forum with attacks like the one on Bravo and others.

I may allow you to continue insulting our intelligence with your views and approach but not people.

Jim

Admin I Hold my hands up.. I was prob wrong in my approach too. It just seems the forum is inundated with this stuff lately and I over reacted.

Thanks Bravo like you I am getting touchy with some of the recent events
We managed to avoid these issues for so long, it becomes a real pain as Admin when they break out and we have had 2 or 3 doosies, like with Messrs Thompson and Zammit and with an unmentionable now deceased church in Sydney

I too am faulted to Jon Donnis.

Starling wrote:
Colin Fry

With that admission, how can you be sure that other mediums you are thoroughly convinced are genuine haven't fooled you like Colin Fry did?

Also I appreciate you admitting you have been fooled, it takes guts to admit that and I respect you for it.
Anyone can be fooled but it takes a big person to admit it and hopefully learn from it, at the moment I do not know enough about you to judge whether you have learnt from it though.

Also no interest in your personal belief in an afterlife, but please do not use the word evidence, as you have not had evidence, you have been convinced very different.

It doesn't matter to me that you have no interest in my personal belief in an afterlife, because you need proof, and I can't give that to you.

But I am going to keep an open mind, can you?

As a skeptic it is my default setting to be open minded.
I am open minded, my point above was that I have no interest in changing your personal faith in the afterlife, you have a right to believe in that through faith.

Okay so tell me why you think there is no mediumship, and also I want to know more about how you conned people, without cheating?

While you were on the medium course.

I can't get the 7 page info on your time spent at the medium course, would have to subscribe The Sceptic (volume 21 #4 winter 2008)

can you post me the information please?

This is part of what I was trying to explain to another user on here who simply jumped to judgement without reading what I put, there is way too much to go into here and I simply dont have the time, suffice to say anyone who things psychics only use hot or cold reading really have no idea how the whole thing works.
I do as I have done it and experienced it all first hand.

Yes, I apologise, I was stirring it up a bit!

Thats ok, I dont mind that, always fun trying to defend things I have said in the past.

Your Entitled to your opinion, I only have the opinions of those that have sat with me as I have never witnessed it myself. From what they say I do not sit around pulling faces.
As for receiving Messages about me, At least I was worth the message and opinion I suppose lol

Your entire delusion is based on the "validation" of others, does that worry you?
You obviously have doubts about what you do, and your personality sugests you are in need of the feedback and ego stroking/sympathetic congratulations, you have definitely suffered a huge loss in the past, some kind of illness involved as well.

I am sorry for what you have been through in the past, but the route you are taking now for you is to justify what happened, and that is ok, I can understand that, but the moment you take money from people, you cross a line, and that is a line that I can tell you struggle with every day.

Admin wrote:Jon it is clear that you do not want to stay long on this site but it may have been interesting if you toned down.YOU CAN SHOUT AS LOUD AS YOU LIKE but you will never be able to convince me that what I have actually seen and done is not real.

I truly understand Marcello Truzzi's objections to your brand od pseudo scepticism https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2042-psychical-research-versus-pseudo-skepticism You do not go into anything with an open mind.

Now please cease insulting members of this forum with attacks like the one on Bravo and others.

I may allow you to continue insulting our intelligence with your views and approach but not people.

Jim

Jim, you blindly allow "Lars" to post on this forum despite the fact it is obvious he is one of the "MU" people and one of Zammitts mob at that.
Why do you think it is ok to allow such people free reign on your forum?

Also I have no interest in convincing you of anything, I am not a psychic I do not need to convince people to get approval.

And I have not insulted anyone on this forum, I have stated facts, historical and scientific. I have not name called, or been nasty, instead I have been called a liar a fraud and worse by members here, yet I have not complained.

You are the owner of this forum and can do what you choose, if you feel the need to ban me to protect your career and earnings thats cool and your perogative, however you you want to keep me here as someone who has done more as a skeptic than any other skeptic around, well that can only help debate, and further peoples understanding of a different point of view.

Jon Donnis Study the critique of pseudo sceptic: that is just what you keep repeating the mantra nothing else but your viewpoint you offer no facts so you just abuse what we all know is provable truth when it comes from other than the frauds.

No new knowledge but what would we expect from a pseudo-
sceptic

By the way Jon whatever little I know of MU he is not a Zammit person, indeed if you think this site has any sympathy for Zammit, apart from his determined support of survival, you are wrong. Lars lack of English is, as I respect, because he is Swedish and we always respect, on this forum. people who try to share with us.

Indeed I have no idea who MU!! is but I love the way he has you all dancing round. None of you was about MU!! when you joined this forum. yet now you do;
please explain?

By the way why have you failed in a critique of the excellent piece on https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2042-psychical-research-versus-pseudo-skepticism
I understand that a group of very serious researchers are about to undertake the journey of debunking the pseudo sceptics and the what they have cheated in their claims this is going to be a real winner do not worry about this forum Jon, with what they have it could be on for young and old, with the cheating sceptics have used to "prove" their points and it is a long and extensive list.

I have enough of my own proofs but I will leave it to the experts to take the pseudo sceptics apart

Admin wrote:Jon Donnis Study the critique of pseudo sceptic: that is just what you keep repeating the mantra nothing else but your viewpoint you offer no facts so you just abuse what we all know is provable truth when it comes from other than the frauds.

No new knowledge but what would we expect from a pseudo-
sceptic

Why do you continue to insult me, I have not insulted or name called anyone on here?
In fact from the moment I posted on here I have suffered abuse and name calling.

Jon you have a very clear choice, as you say you go not need to be here but you "feed". In honesty this thread, on its own, reveals your approach,

I asked you to respond to a pseudo sceptic thread that in itself, given your lack of response, speaks volumes. the mind is not engaged in any other way but reasoned debate which involves proof.

There is no way you came onto this forum expecting other than a challenge.

Admin wrote:By the way Jon whatever little I know of MU he is not a Zammit person, indeed if you think this site has any sympathy for Zammit, apart from his determined support of survival, you are wrong. Lars lack of English is, as I respect, because he is Swedish and we always respect, on this forum. people who try to share with us.

You come across as incredibly naive, you remind me of Kitkat on the Spiritlove forum.

As for Lars, you'll figure out that one soon enough. I joined, then he joined just to attack me! lol
Not too hard to figure out.

Indeed I have no idea who MU!! is but I love the way he has you all dancing round. None of you was about MU!! when you joined this forum. yet now you do;
please explain?

Hasn't got me dancing about at all, he joined my forum, I deleted him, he has tried to attack me, I swat him away like a fly.
I have been doing this way to long to let such things bother me, seriously check my forum, no one cares or even mentioned him.
The fact Lars repeatedly trolls on here on my posts doesn't seem to bother you, wait till one of his other accounts appears and starts causing trouble then you will soon remember my words.

By the way why have you failed in a critique of the excellent piece on https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2042-psychical-research-versus-pseudo-skepticism
I understand that a group of very serious researchers are about to undertake the journey of debunking the pseudo sceptics and the what they have cheated in their claims this is going to be a real winner do not worry about this forum Jon, with what they have it could be on for young and old, with the cheating sceptics have used to "prove" their points and it is a long and extensive list.

No idea what you are on about, and dont really care. Not posted on that thread so not quite sure why you say I have failed to critique it?
I am not part of the skeptical community, I do not mix with the various groups either, doesn't interest me.

[quote]I have enough of my own proofs but I will leave it to the experts to take the pseudo sceptics apart[/quote

The only people who expose pseudo skeptics are other skeptics, its always been that way.

And do you think calling me a pseudoskeptic riles me?
Seriously Jim, I been exposing frauds for near on 10 years, if you think a bit of name calling is going to make me snap and make a fool of myself you really do have no idea.

I have had death threats, facebook, Myspace and twitter hacked, been followed and threatened on the street, had entire websites created purely to expose me.
The police have a file on all the crap I have gone through over the years 2 inches thick.
Since someone posted a link to the Ghost Connections site elsewhere, did you know that Kim one of the people behind that site once had a phone call from someone telling her they were going to kill me! They incorrectly assumed from an interview I did with them that I was connected to that site! I am not.

Even Derek Acorah once contacted me once warning me that someone had contacted him and given him my home address in the hope Derek would come after me with lawyers etc. Derek however is an annoyingly nice man and did the right thing and warned me.

You see when you have been through what I have, being called a pseudoskeptic truly is the least someone can do.
I have been called much much worse and by much more important and credible people by you.

So back to the drawing board for you, already made a bit of a fool of yourself, but dont worry I forgive you for the ultimate action you will have to take against me to protect your reputation. Again I am used to the prejudice, the discrimination, I accept the abuse because of the nature of the people I talk too, its just a shame I am rarely if ever pleasantly surprised by such people, it would be nice to just once have someone willing to listen and learn to me, me or just happens to have done things that no other named skeptic has done.

Admin wrote:Jon you have a very clear choice, as you say you go not need to be here but you "feed". In honesty this thread, on its own, reveals your approach,

I asked you to respond to a pseudo sceptic thread that in itself, given your lack of response, speaks volumes. the mind is not engaged in any other way but reasoned debate which involves proof.

There is no way you came onto this forum expecting other than a challenge.

I have not received a challenge, all I have received is abuse based on preconceptions of who I am!

Sorry I misunderstood your intention regarding that thread you linked, I thought you meant I had already replied.
I will go look at it now and if it interests me I will reply.

Again remember I have exposed more psychics than anyone else on the planet, wealth of information and knowledge here, why dont you use it?

[quote] Jon said
With that admission, how can you be sure that other mediums you are thoroughly convinced are genuine haven't fooled you like Colin Fry did?

Also I appreciate you admitting you have been fooled, it takes guts to admit that and I respect you for it.
Anyone can be fooled but it takes a big person to admit it and hopefully learn from it, at the moment I do not know enough about you to judge whether you have learnt from it though.



I was going to stop with the last post, but I need to say this,

I think some Mediums that have been found to be fraudsters, probably have very good mediumship abilities, but I don't think that some can keep the messages flowing with audiences at venues, or on TV or wherever.

They have made very unwise decisions to con ie, Sally Morgan and the ear piece.

What happens then are that thousands of people don't believe in life after death anymore.

This is so terrible for people that have had messages from family in the spiritworld, feeling at peace, then having that taken away, it must be devastating!

Some mediums that were found deceptive probably started out wanting to help people to connect with loved ones in the spirit world, they had the gift or developed mediumship.

Look at similarity with some religions, with honest ministers/preachers and then there are the scam ministers and fake TV preachers.

Possibly the scam ministers and fake TV preachers wanted to carry their message to help people too at the start but ended up corrupt also,

I know honest mediums, who work for very little money, at times just enough for their petrol.

I go to a lot of evenings with mediumship at our local Spiritual church, and I work with volunteers as a spiritual healer, I'm training.

I'm not a medium, I used to attend development circles and workshops.
You said you where at the top of your class at medium school, I was probably closer to the bottom,
Developing mediumship can take a long long, long time. years!

Jutta

This is a message to the admin Jim.

I just informing you, that the user "lars" is MU. I have documented all his activities on the rationalwiki talk page. Google to find it.

MU is now spamming this website spiritualismlink on other blogs and telling people to come over here and insult Jon Donnis. Lars is 100% Mu.

I am no longer looking into this guys internet activities (if you see the rationalwiki page, me and the real eveshi and two other users have screenshots of the abuse and filth he has been posting people for the last 3 months. I have finished posting on the rationalwiki page becuase MU just feeds off the attention, if we all stop talking about him, then hopefully he will move on and find someone else and get caught one day, hes been abusing people on the internet for over 10 years, he pretended to be the remote reviewer courtney brown for 3 years. I had a long chat with brown and he is not happy. The rationalwiki thsite will stay up for any other victims who MU abuses.

He has abused my name and the name of eveshi on countless of blogs and forums. He has spammed my name, email address (which I deleted) and eveshi on websites asking for gay sex etc, and sent people sexual abuse under fake emails of me and eveshi. We are dealing with a very sick guy. All I know about him is that hes in his 60s, unmarried (obviously), an atheist and believes in physical mediumship. He also has a fake twitter account where he insults eveshi (now max), mac, michael prescott, me and countless of others. It is the most nutty thing you will ever see.

I can confirm that the user "lars" is 100% MU, if you read over lars posts he links to "bit" websites. If you view his troll twitter account (its linked on the rationalwiki page) some of these "bit" links that he posts, link to animal porn websites. This is the sort of sick guy that you have as a member on your forum.

I have spoken to Victor Zammit and he told me he thinks this guys real name is George and that he has a police record etc for harrressing the medium david thompson and others. That may be false, others have told me they think this MU person is a friend of Michael Roll and others told me he is brian g. kelley. Interestingly MU admitted to having met michael roll and leslie flint etc, it is an old guy in the field of physical mediumship.

As I have stated many times, I hope this guy does get in trouble with the police. But if we stop feeding him and giving him attention he will move onto someone else.

I have no interest in posting on this forum, apart from this one post. I am sorry about this troll, but he has been doing the same to countless of forums and blogs on the internet to blacklist peoples names, there is no "them" it is ALL one guy. He seems to change his ip address, but on his main account on the skeptiko forum before he was banned his location was listed as London and Florida USA. I believe MU is from London but has travelled to other countries to attend seances. There is current breakdown by the police in the UK on internet abuse and trolling. It is only a matter of time before he gets exposed. By the way one of his recent targets seems to be a guy called "mac". Hes been making fake accounts of this person on the afterlife forums and other blogs according to his troll twitter account.

Perhaps the remote viewer Courtney Brown can tell us who and where MU is?

Funghi one thing I am sure of is that this is not George, who is George Cranley AKA Zerdini. Messrs Zammit and Thompson hate him so much they will drag out a very minor single event from over 40 years ago and then try to blacken his name. I have the posts Mr Thompson wrote safely tucked away with the matching links about that. Indeed some of those are much more like the things you are complaining about. They subjected this person to a vile series of attacks without providing a single piece of proof. Be very careful what you say as I do know who you are.

Why do they hate George ..because he challenges DT's mediumship claims and will not accept him or support him. I am bored with telling you that you, like me, have no idea who the mysterious MU!! is. He managed to use an Icelandic IP last time he came on which is a while ago.

Mr Zammit, if you have really contacted him, may have used his empirical observation skills to reach the conclusion he wanted to not the correct one in this case.

Please do, as you say on here, leave this ridiculous chase alone , your appearance and comments are detrimental to the status of Jon who is doing a fine job on here without you jumping in. In honesty I have been receiving emails which seem to come directly from you, or people associated with you demanding I tell you who MU is. These have been very offensive and all over your pursuit of a character none of us know. MU!! has done a great job in misleading people but I do say you need to read all of the so called posters work on other forums to note that it is clear many of the names represent different people in different places because of the words used and the grammar. Its time this apparent Troll fight across forums, with no respect to the owners and members of those forums, was brought to an end.

I think your view, to let it go, is the right one fed Trolls just get bigger

LARS,

I have been deleting very many of your posts because they are too rude and not suitable for the forum. One line attacks which just abuse people or call them liars are not appropriate. You may not like what Jon Donnis appears to represent but we should always be prepared to listen, debate and discuss.

I suspect that you do not realise just how much this forum challenges and raises the potential for fraud. There is very much on here critical of dark séances and debating mediums like Warren Caylor and Anders Akesson. Also a long debate about David Thompson. You will also find some excellent research which validly challenges the work of the Davenport Brothers, Bangs Sisters and which totally dismiss Anna Eva Fay.

You may also like to read the threads about the history of Dark Seances
https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2043-light-magazine-and-psycholgical-review-against-dark-seances

So we do not fit the everything is always and has always been fine. Indeed there should always be some common ground between ourselves and open minded sceptics.

Jim you have the patience of a saint.