Re: A very heavy heart about all this

by LeroyC Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:31 pm

Hello Waller,

Thanks for your comments. David Thompson will not know me as LeroyC. Just mention my communications with Horatio Eddy and he may twig who I am !!.

LeroyC

by Waller Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:43 pm

by Waller Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:01 pm

by mac Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:27 pm

"As an aside, Muegge is charging $125-145 per seat, Thompson $100 per seat. Should I expect 25% or 50% more phenomena or survival evidence from Kai? "

any rain checks?

by Waller Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:40 pm

by Waller Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:01 pm

by eternaltruths Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:36 pm

Just follow Muegges reactions on physicalmediumship4you and make your own idea. He acts like a shoot and wounded animal. The guys he had invited to prove his genuinity said "seemingly fraud" and now what does he do. He starts to attack those people and saying he is the poor lamb beside the wolves...

Be sure, my position is after years clear. And I have my experiences. What happens here is devastating and in no way helpful to reach higher levels.

by obiwan Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:54 pm

Waller wrote:
obiwan wrote:It seems to me the current situation is the best advert yet for doing personal research. What I mean is that unless one knows what is possible, it may be difficult to understand how weak the current offerings in the field seem.

A person may claim to be a a physical medium - but can they be compared to DD Home, or Alex Harris, or Minnie Harrison or Leslie Flint or Emily French etc? Having read reports of the mediums I mention, it is clear what can be achieved.

Why do I feel as if I am speaking to a Star Wars retread?

This is why I am attending the Thompson and the soon upcoming Muegge seances. It is all about the personal experience.

I don't see the relevance in comparing mediums though. Like futbol players or any other capability, each has their own potentials and limitations. The follow on argument I hear from time to time is that we are in different spiritual times which is why PM is has bottomed out. In terms of the number of PMs and the demonstrations of the active PM community, quality and quantity.

Or is it that the spirit world is being limited by the Source in developing the PM scene for whatever reason. I have no idea.

Point well taken, Mr. Wan, thank you.

I am definitely a star wars retread lol

The relevance of comparing mediums is in terms of expectation. The names I mention are examples of what is possible via good mediums of their specialty. If one hasn't heard of Alec Harris for example or how he worked and his results, one might assume that banging around in complete darkness and touches etc are the height of this type of mediumship which they are most certainly not.

by Waller Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:30 pm

by obiwan Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:05 am

Waller wrote:
obiwan wrote:
The relevance of comparing mediums is in terms of expectation. The names I mention are examples of what is possible via good mediums of their specialty. If one hasn't heard of Alec Harris for example or how he worked and his results, one might assume that banging around in complete darkness and touches etc are the height of this type of mediumship which they are most certainly not.
True this.

What a shame. The public's understanding of PM is abysmal. It didn't get taught in American History, so it doesn't exist. Same with post mortem survival evidence, Wan. Apparently, the public either ignores or refuses to review the 1,000s of modern NDEs which is replete with survival evidence. I guess they watch John Edward and Theresa Caputo and pass it off as majickal entertainment.

I must say that my own research (along with getting to know one or two who have had amazing experiences) into the subject of survival has helped to develop my approach to assessing evidence. When I read about mediums such as Emily French, Leslie Flint and Alec Harris i was astonished at what appeared to be possible and that so much evidence has become so invisible to the general public.

I think assessing the evidence fairly requires quite a bit of work and that some people either don't have the inclination or the intellectual tools to do the research.

by eternaltruths Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:20 am

Waller wrote:
mac wrote:"As an aside, Muegge is charging $125-145 per seat, Thompson $100 per seat. Should I expect 25% or 50% more phenomena or survival evidence from Kai? "

any rain checks?
The seance is indoors.

No, refunds, Muegge sold out 4 days and related workshops (actually oversold due to a misunderstanding as to how many ppl are allowed per sitting; 24 inc. medium and his wife). Thompson has a few seats remaining of 4 sitting dates. I think he holds the numbers to approximately 24 as well but I could be off a little on this figure.

Thompsons sittings in basle were with more than 40 people as far as I remember. That as well did not make a tribute to the whole thing. But for sure to the purse.

by mac Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:32 am

Waller wrote:
mac wrote:"As an aside, Muegge is charging $125-145 per seat, Thompson $100 per seat. Should I expect 25% or 50% more phenomena or survival evidence from Kai? "

any rain checks?
The seance is indoors.

No, refunds, Muegge sold out 4 days and related workshops (actually oversold due to a misunderstanding as to how many ppl are allowed per sitting; 24 inc. medium and his wife). Thompson has a few seats remaining of 4 sitting dates. I think he holds the numbers to approximately 24 as well but I could be off a little on this figure.

nice little earner - I wonder if this income is declared to the IRS or whether, in fact, he has a permit to work in the country in the first place?

by eternaltruths Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:08 am

No need to if you have such higher contacts. Smile

by Admin Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:25 pm

The adverts for Basle were 40 people, 2 years about 6 - 8 seances. Saratoga were 30+

by eternaltruths Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:39 am

Waller wrote:Here is a link to a podcast dated yesterday. I found this via Kai's response to a thread I started in PM4U.

quarreling (arguments?) inside the Investigative Team. One member of the team is solely focused on the possibilities of fraud and ignores the reality of the phenomena.

More coming but I have to get offline, my Internet service is being repaired as I type.

Well, Muegge reacts as expected in my eyes. You must keep in mind. He invited Braude as well as Nahm to prove his pehnomenas are all real. No tricks. Guess what...if they had finally come to that conclusion and Muegge could use the "under scientific research" thing for further developments, this indeeed would be a brilliant promotion. I use that word well aware of the meaning. If you followed the Circles Blog as much as I did you may have noticed how much Muegge also relied on Braudes and Nahms reports that will soon be published. Also a video was planned by Lena Film and much more. Menawhile, the results of the studies not published Muegges gif was really a gift for him. I made it possible for him to travel around the world, USA, Australia and get a growing number of followers and fans. Not bad, also as income for sure.

But that would be okay for sure. We all need to eat and pay our taxes (!) so far charging for beeing a guest on the seances was okay.

The striking evidence now coming out that at least some phenomena are not genuine endangers Muegges whole Reputation and income (seminars, seances). Know for his extraordinary ectoplams photos and now stories arise he bought cobweb in big amounts online for what purpose? Deleted blog entries after being confronted with uncomfortbale questions. And then which can be read as well, Muegge who said those things are not true, denying he bought the cobweb as long as Nahm could confront him with the prove. Changing stories, balancing the truth in some vague ways, all that is written down in the article. A shame the articles are not open to anyone. Those who still say "I saw what I saw and do believe" really should made their mind up (like I did).

Muegges reaction on the show as well as on pm4u for me even more is showing that there is soemthing wrong here. Ke does not take stance to the acusations but reacts angry and offended, even more attacks the two guys that invested time and money to find out the truth. I think a reaction that would have been more kind and professinal would have fit better. Saying "now I see who are the real friend" sounds like a playground speech. The topic is not being friendly but true. As said I am sure neither Braude nor Nahm enjoyed making the things public in that style and would have preferred their work finally is honored by the wonderulf fact of "yes, it is all genuine, correct". That was the harvest aimed for. But what should you do if he Facts stand in the way and speak a different language. And if you confront Muegge with those facts the reaction is obvious as well.

Throwing dirt on Nahm and Braude in your home forum as well as on live streams will not help. A gifted person tangled to the higher spirits for sure acts different from that. And Muegge runs a big risk with his offense. Someday Nahm as well as Braude may have enough of that game and answer in the forums directly, shwoing all reasons for the indeices of fraud in some phenomena. It will be quite difficult for Muegge demolishing those facts then. Rude reactions will only lead to bigger awareness, a friendly discussion and taking stand to the accusations would be better.

by Waller Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:33 pm

by Waller Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:49 pm

by eternaltruths Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:37 pm

[quote="Waller"]

People simply do not have the time to do much more and pay their bills.

I think you are to friendly. For sure they would have. Never ever did people have more spare time. We live longer than ever before, we have shorter working times, more vacation days The issue is "investment in the wrong things". Ask a Lady between 20 and 30 on the latest fashion and style topics or movie celebrity scandals stuff or older women on royal happening, watch guys who for shows trained months to do some artistic stuff to get on tv. I known people who have all lyrics of any song available on their mind (at least somehow creative) as well as I know people who make notes on any plane taking off from their airport... Then there is those who watch each daily soap...

Me myself I "wasted" many years on such things. For sure we are here to be earthlings and enjoy our time, live maybe even somehow a bit superficial but the thing is balancing out. You may watch your soap anyway but maybe spend at least half an hour or 1 for meditation or reading a real book or doing nothing (which is a lot). Noone must do that but do not complain afterwards if you feel you have maybe not really lived your life and it someday feels a bit thin in some way. I meet people every day excusing themselves they have to much to do. I always refer then to the example of (was it Dale Carnegie) who told the story of the guy working 12 hs, 5 days a week as boss in his office having no time for his family. Then he meets that tempting woman and starts a secret relationship. Suddenly there is time for a trip to rome, installing a cosy little meeting place in a flat near his office and so much more. WHAT YOU WANT YOU MAY ACHIEVE. HAVING NO TIME IS A BAD EXCUSE.

Sending you my warmest regards...

by Waller Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:56 pm

by hiorta Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:03 pm

Don't we all have exactly the same amount of time at our disposal?

by obiwan Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:44 pm

Waller wrote:
I must say that my own research (along with getting to know one or two who have had amazing experiences) into the subject of survival has helped to develop my approach to assessing evidence. When I read about mediums such as Emily French, Leslie Flint and Alec Harris i was astonished at what appeared to be possible and that so much evidence has become so invisible to the general public.

I think assessing the evidence fairly requires quite a bit of work and that some people either don't have the inclination or the intellectual tools to do the research.
This is an issue that has fundamentally bothered me. The exclusivity of information. This exclusivity is what drives me to ignore the Bible and the religions attached to it. The Koran and Vedic literatures fall in the same categories. It doesn't help that the scholars, those insiders with the inclination, time, dedication and tools can't agree on much of anything.

Survival evidence is not so tricky though. You can eat an elephant if limit yourself to one elephant and are patient. This is the approach that has worked best with newbies to post mortem survival evidence. Take one of the major topics, let's say reincarnation, and spend your time drilling down on it. If you do, you may leave with a very good understanding of the reality of consciousness survival.

People simply do not have the time to do much more and pay their bills.

I agree. Focusing on predominantly one aspect at a time rather than gaining a smattering of knowledge is the best, possibly the only way, to form a reasonable view of the evidence in the absence of direct personal experience.

by Waller Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:09 pm

by Admin Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:05 am

Hi Waller,

Its an interesting question but turn it around and ask it the other way round, then when we get the JSE papers and the DVD of the conference look carefully at them and re consider both questions.

by Admin Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:23 am

I think our friend Waller improved his posts before he left the forum. It has not really damaged the flow of discussion.

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