Two new Theosophical Posts highlight Different Philosophy

http://www.cwleadbeater.org/CWL_Spiritualism_And_Theosophy.htm

http://blavatskynews.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/blavatsky-and-spiritualism.html

Admin wrote:http://www.cwleadbeater.org/CWL_Spiritualism_And_Theosophy.htm

http://blavatskynews.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/blavatsky-and-spiritualism.html

Theosophy is the study of a range of approaches. There are many Theosophical thinkers. I don't think Theosophy can be typified through the work of Madame Blavatsky and Charles Leadbeater alone.

Reading theosophical material is almost essential for Westerners to gain some insight into deeper esoteric ideas and practices. Spiritualism would allow this study because we all have free will and can follow our own consciences, right ?

From what I understand, the early Theosophists fought as much amongst themselves as Spiritualists do

Still do Quiet, of course the key diffeerence they still teach is that all Mediums communicate with is the astral remnant which fades away over time. Strangely that is one feature which appears to be more strongly held now than I expected. At times I get members of the local Theosophical Society coming along and making that claim when messages are given.

I thnk you will find that when theosophy split in the early 1900's many felt Leadbetter and Besant were not representing the teachings of Blavatsky.

For myself I will leave theosophy alone I have no need of esoteric and occult ideas as they do not fit my view of Spiritualism which is neither of those things.

The flaws surrounding Blavatsky, well emphasised in the book Madam Blavatsky's baboon and Leadbetters paedophilia leave me cold as does teh astral remnant theory. Of course Mdm B hated DD Home because of his debunking of her.

I think the human stories behind religious and esoteric groups make fascinating reading but, like you I suspect, I steer away from them. I thought that Leadbeater was homosexual but that doesn't mean paedophile. Must check.

I've heard that claim about the astral remnant too and don't bother about it. How does anyone really know? Lorraine Holloway-White, the British medium believes that poorly trained mediums will only get lower level spirits as well. She is not a Spiritualist and doesn't think much of Spiritualist training. She reckons it is becoming watered down but she believes even more strongly that mediums are born that way, not trained up.

I do know that Besant that 'thought forms' are energetic entities and can be problematic. That concept does interest me a little. It seems to be tied into karma.

To be honest, I don't know enough about the history of Theosophy to speak confidently about it but I don't think it matters much what current day Theosophists think about Spiritualism or vice versa.

I might call myself an eclectic Spiritualist

Emma HB started out Theosophist then moved on. Leadbeater was an unsavoury character even by his own admission. Theosophists here in England kick started all sorts. Western Buddhists via Christmas Humphries began as a Theosophical Lodge as did the Liberal Catholic church. Both still going but not Theosophist now. Co Masons too that began as Theosophy and that chap who started Chalice Well Trust and its lovely HQ at Glastonbury he was one to begin with. Krishnamurti was groomed to be Theosophist Messiah til he told 'em where to put that idea
Theosophists are tiny in numbers these days compared to us, at least in UK.
Years ago you'd get the very odd one turning up at big London dems trying to hand out leaflets and buttonholing attenders. Easy to spot [tended to look a bit haunted] and best avoided. Tried to come to one once with a link. She was out the door faster than a rat up a drainpipe.

That chap who started Chalice Well Trust has long passed. But his lad's the head grand poo bah of the Druids who pitch up wearing bedsheets and carrying super-camp staffs wonderfully carved and denoting their rank in that mystic heirarchy at Stonehenge every midsummer eve. Bill Roache who plays Ken Barlow in Coronation St [longest running TV soap opera in UK] is one, so is Rowan Williams Archbishop of Canterbury, for not much longer. Rowan generally gives Stonehenge gig a miss.
Small world eh?

All that stuff's interesting, if you have the time for it.

Me, I'm caught up in the mundane aspects of earthly life, plus learning all I can about the next one.

As an 'eclectic' Spiritualist you would be amongst the most august of historic peers Q.
The old London Spiritualist Alliance publishing arm was the 'Eclectic Publishing Company' One of the directors and author of some of their very best selling books was Spiritualist pioneer the Rev William Stainton Moses.



Sorry guys... it's raining and I'm stuck indoors bored.

I get the impression that all these good folk (even Leadbeater) were just like us - looking for meaning and making all sorts of brilliant discoveries and terrible mistakes

Makes me feel much better to know I am not alone in my fumbling through the fog. Bit of light over there ? Ooops .......... fell into the swamp!

The most surprising people here are Freemasons. They have a whole esoteric tradition as well.

I don't know any Theosophists but I love their library and bookshop. Buy up madly to keep them going even though I have a Kindle.

We all stumble on. Sometimes it's fun and quite thrilling.

Duplicate post.

There are 57 Theosophical lodges listed in GB including their HQ but some of those appear to be one man and his holy dog type outfits without any meetings times or venue.
There's more than that number of Spiritualist churches in Greater London alone.

Of course numbers aint everything. There's a chap on Blackpool prom has a well visited UFO show. Abductions Roswell that sort of thing. Grand tableux at the end is waxworks of the great universal council sitting at a round table as they sort the destinies of the galaxies. The ideas behind that all are pure Theosophy.
But for Theosophy and then the Cold War we'd have had next to no SciFi genre.

Quiet wrote:I get the impression that all these good folk (even Leadbeater) were just like us - looking for meaning and making all sorts of brilliant discoveries and terrible mistakes

Makes me feel much better to know I am not alone in my fumbling through the fog. Bit of light over there ? Ooops .......... fell into the swamp!

The most surprising people here are Freemasons. They have a whole esoteric tradition as well.

I don't know any Theosophists but I love their library and bookshop. Buy up madly to keep them going even though I have a Kindle.

We all stumble on. Sometimes it's fun and quite thrilling.

Good points Q, I am currently trying to swim out of the swamp... if I can only find a way out . Seriously, I feel it is good to read a little of different peoples perspectives from different religious ideas, history, etc. For me it gives more of a complet picture of what is being taught. The Theosophists certainly do have quite a large collection of books and many can be read online: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ts/tup-onl.htm

Lynn

Faith tradition books are fascinating wherever they spring from. You never can tell when you might stumble across a diamond in the swamp.
There are so many linkages in belief-books. Folk using different terms and imagery to express similar ideas or yearnings.
We were discussing poetry a while back. That can sometimes somehow transcend language to brush up against the ineffable.

Alan Watts the Zen Episcopalian had a riff...
'Study to eff the ineffable and unscrew the inscrutable'.

tmmw wrote:
Good points Q, I am currently trying to swim out of the swamp... if I can only find a way out . Seriously, I feel it is good to read a little of different peoples perspectives from different religious ideas, history, etc. For me it gives more of a complet picture of what is being taught. The Theosophists certainly do have quite a large collection of books and many can be read online: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ts/tup-onl.htm

Lynn

Thanks for the link to the website - what a massive collection of books they have. Very useful!

I have read only 2 books of Theosophy.
Both are by J.J.Van Der Leeuw.
Both are good reads.
"Gods in Exile" (this may have to bought)
"The Conquest of Illusion" (I downloaded the webpage at this site
http://home.earthlink.net/~grharmon/conquest.htm).
Nevertheless I have very dubious opinion of Theosophy because
of its racist overtones.
This is taken from Wikipedia
Blavatsky's Theosophy connected to antisemitism, racism
Jackson Spielvogel and David Redles of the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Museum of Tolerance analyze Blavatsky's racial ideas in her book Secret Doctrine. According to Spielvogel and Redles Blavatsky labeled some races superior and others inferior. They clarify that Blavatsky did not advocate "domination of one race over another" and that she was against violence. They comment that Blavatsky's work "helped to foster antisemitism, which is perhaps one of the reasons her esoteric work was so rapidly accepted in German circles." They state Blavatsky "sharply differentiated Aryan and Jewish religion" and believed "The Aryans were the most spiritual people on earth." They quote Blavatsky's writing in Secret Doctrine as stating Aryans used religion as an "everlasting lodestar" in contrast to Judaism which Blavatsky claimed was based on "mere calculation" while characterizing it as a "religion of hate and malice toward everyone and everything outside itself."[34]

Stephen

Strange woman and Leadbeater was worse he'd have been locked up these days.
Some of the early SPR 'scientists' were dyed in the wool eugnicists too. Imperiaist snobbery apart there's little antisemitism in Spiritualis certainly not in its early London manifestations where many secular Jews took it up with enthusiasm a tradition continued through to Swaffer and Barbanell. Not so with Northern working class Spiritualism of the same era which was as casually racist as most plebeian causes were back then. They discriminated by county let alone race. Lancashire Mediums were not always booked in Yorkshire causes and vice versa simply be reason of where they came from. The long tail of the Wars of the Roses that still exists today in some places up north.
Have you noticed the Mishnah resonance in 'Silver Birch' writings Stephen? They are very Rabbinic in parts.

Dear Katy,
My approach to Judaism has generally been antithetical to the Rabbinic
school .My knowledge of the Mishnah(Oral Torah) and the Talmud are zero.I have many
relatives very well versed in these studies and if you can give me more accurate
references to those part of SB's teachings you feel are Rabbinic I will with
pleasure ask them.
Unfortunately I have found it very expensive to purchase SB's books as I have
to order from abroad.The secondhand bookmarket is cheaper but nevertheless
the expense adds up.The one book I have is
"Philosophy of Silver Birch" edited by Stella Storm.Maybe the relevant passages
are in this book?.Let me know.
Stephen

Admin wrote:Still do Quiet, of course the key diffeerence they still teach is that all Mediums communicate with is the astral remnant which fades away over time. Strangely that is one feature which appears to be more strongly held now than I expected.

While I don't agree with the "astral remnant" theory, I can see an analogy there with certain Spiritualist beliefs.

Spiritualists tend not to believe that the next-immediate plane of existence after bodily death (let's call it the astral realm) is a permanent one. Some believe we reincarnate on the earth plane. Others believe that we ascend to the next-higher level in the spirit world.

Either way, there's a belief that it's eventually difficult or impossible to make contact with a spirit who went to the astral realm.

Could it be that Theosophists are using the idea of "the astral remnant which fades away over time" to explain the same phenomenon?

Admin wrote:

For myself I will leave theosophy alone I have no need of esoteric and occult ideas as they do not fit my view of Spiritualism which is neither of those things.

Yes. And by nature, I'm very much a "show me the evidence" sort of guy. Spiritualism can do that. Theosophy falls short. Why should I take on faith someone else's assertions about the esoteric truths some purported ascended masters allegedly revealed to them?