Re: Psychic News, SNU Spiritualist National Union and Liquidator

by Eilis Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:45 pm

hiorta wrote:As of tonight - 21.20 hrs - Psychic Press (PN bookshop) is still 'open for business' albeit asking potential customers for a phone call to buy.
Seems they have no scruples at all.

If that information is correct it's very worrying indeed.

by Lis Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:24 pm

I agree Eilis, if the bookshop is still taking phone orders despite the 'correction' sent out to some churches and people, saying that the bookshop was no longer able to take orders - it certainly is worrying.

The bookshop, like PN, and Psychic Press, has either had its activities "suspended" as the NEC statement claims or if not then the NEC would appear once again to be making false statements.

by hiorta Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:30 pm

The information is as per their website: http://www.psychicnewsbookshop.co.uk/
Timed 14.30 - Aug 15th 2010 Edinburgh time

by zerdini Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:22 pm

On August 6th I posted:

On their website it states: "TO PURCHASE BOOKS PLEASE CONTACT US ON 01279 817050".

That was on the PN Bookshop website then and nothing has changed on their website since.

by Lis Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:06 am

Let us just remind ourselves that on August 6, 2010 an email went out to various churches allegedly from the Online Bookshop Team which stated:

"The Psychic News online bookshop is currently closed for new orders, however you can still browse the site and place an order direct with us, subject to availability. For availability and to order please contact us on: Tel: 44 (0)1279 817050 Fax: 44 (0)1279 817051
Email: psychicnews1@btconnect.com

We will notify you as soon as normal service is resumed. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused. Thank you for your custom"

Two days later a further email was sent out which stated:

"Dear Customer,
Please ignore the email regarding the online bookshop which contained some erroneous information on ordering. The online bookshop is closed for further business. You may still browse the content and contact us for advice on where to order your books in future. We apologise for any confusion caused by the previous mailing."

I have emphasised some words to make clear what is allegedly the situation.

The second email purports to correct an error in the first email - an error which appeared to suggest that while the online bookshop was closed for new orders you could still order a book by phone. The second email alleges that the online bookshop is closed but you can still browse the content and contact them for advice on where to order books in the future.

I said at the time that the second email did little more than attempt to obscure the real situation. If anyone on phoning the bookshop number given has actually successfully purchased a book from this source we would appreciate knowing about it. Indeed if anyone has phoned that number in the last few days seeking clarification of what is or is not possible, this information would be most welcome.

I would still maintain that it would be very unwise for any person to attempt to purchase anything from this source at the present time, even it that should prove possible. I certainly would not encourage anyone to pay money to this source unless they did so in person and were handed the book they were purchasing at the same time as handing over their money.

Just where any monies obtained might end up would be very interesting to know. Somehow I doubt it would be directed to any accounts set up for Psychic Press.

by Lis Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:20 pm

I understand that the edition of Two Worlds containing the David Bruton interview has now been published. Is there anyone on the forum who are not in any way associated with that publication willing to post an objective synopsis of what Mr. Bruton had to say?

I would certainly be interested to read it, as I suspect would be many others who do not subscribe to this publication but have an interest in Mr. Bruton's version of the situation resulting in the closure of Psychic News.

I am hoping, though not, I must admit, without a far degree of scepticism, that Bruton might have actually tried to be honest about what has happened. I rather expect to be disappointed but still, it would be nice if he had.

by veritas Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:32 pm

From the SNU's official statement on the closure of Psychic News

"The JV Trust kindly offered to inject £30,000 into the company ... declined for the following reasons ... the JV Trust, being a charity, would have the same constraints as the SNU on pumping money into a failing company"

I'm a radiographer not a businessman and I don't know about charity law but I feel something doesnt sit right with this argument. The Arthur Findlay college has been saved from serious financial do-do at least twice by the JV trust. Isn't it a business?

Can any of the financial/legal eagles on here make sense of this? I'm maybe missing something?

by zerdini Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:33 pm

The Arthur Findlay college has been saved from serious financial do-do at least twice by the JV trust. Isn't it a business?

When was this?

by Admin Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:32 am

On Paranormal Review LSSNU commented

And Duncan telling everyone what he has acheved in his term of office at the AFC he would have not done hardly any of those things without the support of the money the J.V.Trust injected some £1.3/4 million.

Now you would understand the acronym LSSNU and no one has seriously challenged their statement.

Maybe if you want to know when you should ask the Trust or SNU if they will answer you Z.

by zerdini Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:12 am

Maybe if you want to know when you should ask the Trust or SNU if they will answer you Z.

I have regularly studied the published accounts of the JV Trust and they have never put money into a failing company.

They have certainly helped with the maintenance costs of the Arthur Findlay College which is a very different matter indeed.

by Admin Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:14 am

Hi Z,

Could you please explain the structure of the Arthur Findlay College, the business structure, ownership etc. Is the college seperate from the building funds?

by zerdini Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:43 am

Admin wrote:Hi Z,

Could you please explain the structure of the Arthur Findlay College, the business structure, ownership etc. Is the college seperate from the building funds?

Hi Jim

Details about the AFC are on the SNU website

by Lis Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:14 am

Hi Z

I have tried very hard to establish this but it is not clear on the SNU site.

It is actually very impotant to establish the "corporate structures" in this mess. I do not believe that, if the "failing" Corporate body was working in the best interest of the charity then the Charities commission would have a problem anyway.

In this instance Psychic News was the public voice of Spiritualism and when it made a profit the SNU pocketed the surplus. In the face of those facts then I am certain that the Charities Commission would never question ongoing support.

Interestingly, with what has unfurled before our eyes I am sure the Charities Commission may be concerned with what the NEC are doing now.

Jim

by zerdini Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:41 am

I am not sure whether this post is from Lis or Jim as both names are attached to it so I'll reply as if it is from both.

The Charities Commission would, I am sure be happy to answer any queries you may have regarding the SNU and its structure. The SNU charity number is 261898.

The Annual Return for 31st December 2008 showed Income £2,100,479 and Spending £2,062,523. They had 60 employees.

Failing that you can contact the SNU direct - all email and other details are published on their website.

by Lis Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:52 am

Hi Z,

Actually it was Jim responding to you but was using my internet connection - so I cannot comment on this particular discussion. No doubt Jim will when he has time.

by Wes Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:19 am

zerdini wrote:On August 6th I posted:

On their website it states: "TO PURCHASE BOOKS PLEASE CONTACT US ON 01279 817050".

That was on the PN Bookshop website then and nothing has changed on their website since.

Indeed. I sent them an email two days ago asking if I was still able to order books and received an answer in the
positive, on behalf of Psychic Press.

So if Psychic Press is still operating then what exactly is being shut down.....

by Admin Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:48 am

Thank you Wes very interesting as the Book Shop is part of Psychic Press which the Directors voted to put into liquidation back on May22.

Now wouldn't you be annoyed if you remitted money but before the book was sent the liquidator took over. He woukd have your money for no book.

by Admin Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:49 am

zerdini wrote:I am not sure whether this post is from Lis or Jim as both names are attached to it so I'll reply as if it is from both.

The Charities Commission would, I am sure be happy to answer any queries you may have regarding the SNU and its structure. The SNU charity number is 261898.

The Annual Return for 31st December 2008 showed Income £2,100,479 and Spending £2,062,523. They had 60 employees.

Failing that you can contact the SNU direct - all email and other details are published on their website.

Thanks Z but my question was whether the AFC was part of this structure or a seperate independent organisation.

by zerdini Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:18 am

Admin wrote:
zerdini wrote:I am not sure whether this post is from Lis or Jim as both names are attached to it so I'll reply as if it is from both.

The Charities Commission would, I am sure be happy to answer any queries you may have regarding the SNU and its structure. The SNU charity number is 261898.

The Annual Return for 31st December 2008 showed Income £2,100,479 and Spending £2,062,523. They had 60 employees.

Failing that you can contact the SNU direct - all email and other details are published on their website.

Thanks Z but my question was whether the AFC was part of this structure or a seperate independent organisation.

From the SNU Website:

Other SNU Websites

SNU District Council Websites

East Midlands
Northern
Manchester
West Midlands
East London
Southern
South Western
South Wales

www.arthurfindlaycollege.org

Arthur Findlay College
Residential college for the advancement of Spiritualism and psychic sciences.

www.friendsofstanstedhall.com
Friends of Stansted Hall
A College supporters fund and team of officers started in 1970 by Minister Gordon Higginson.

www.psychicnewsbookshop.co.uk
Psychic Press
The SNU's bookshop website and weekly Psychic Newspaper publisher.

www.snutrust.co.uk
SNU Trust
A mutual building society which offers loans and saving accounts to SNU Spiritualist churches.

by Admin Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:17 am

THIS IS ESSENTIAL READING

Life, death and asset stripping?
https://web.archive.org/web/20110711191540/http://paranormalreview.com/articles/20100817_1
Copyright and acknowledgements to Roy Stemman and Paranormal Review

This is what Roy has said in it

Life, death and asset stripping?"

I was expecting to report some good news about the possible reincarnation of Psychic News, the weekly Spiritualist newspaper founded by Maurice Barbanell (left) which was closed down by the Spiritualists' National Union (SNU) a few weeks ago. Eric Hatton, a former president of the SNU, together with fellow trustees of the Spiritualist charity JV Trust, had hoped to rescue the newspaper. They have been in talks with SNU representatives but sadly have failed to reach agreement. The JV Trust trustees sent their decision to the SNU on Thursday.

So why is it that the SNU has been unable to do a deal with a charity that has been enormously supportive of the Arthur Findlay College and has given financial backing to many other good causes within the Spiritualist movement, including 60 SNU churches?

The answer is surprising. The major stumbling block, as far as I am aware, is that the SNU wanted to sell Psychic News but retain the masthead (title) and its considerable archives. I have already indicated this in comments elsewhere on this blog.

What is new to me is the declaration made by the SNU representatives during those discussions that "the newspaper's title and its archives are assets of the SNU and always will be".

How can this be? Surely they are assets of Psychic Press (1995) Ltd, the company which published the newspaper on behalf of the SNU and which the union said it was about to put into liquidation. If Psychic News goes into liquidation, the masthead and the archives will become the property of the liquidator who can then sell the publication and its assets to the highest bidder.

Inclusion of title and archives in the purchase was certainly the expectation of the JV Trust trusteees when they sat down with the SNU's representatives to hammer out a deal.

If the SNU was not putting the newspaper's title and its assets on the table, along with everything else, then what was it selling? The answer, as far as JV Trust is concerned, is nothing that is worth buying – and who can blame them?

Apparently, the SNU has been in talks with another potential buyer, but if the masthead and the archives are not part of the package, then I can't see that it's going to be of interest to anyone else.

How has the SNU removed these vital components of a publication from the equation? Surely, that's asset stripping? Talking of which, there are still many people – including me – who are wondering what has happened to the money we paid for events that were going to provide income for PN but which have now been cancelled. Unless I get a refund, I'll feel as if I've been asset-stripped, too.

When the Spiritual Truth Foundation presented the newspaper, its title and its archives, together with portrait paintings of Maurice Barbanell and Hannen Swaffer, two of its founders, and a psychic portrait of Silver Birch (right), Barbanell's spirit guide, to the SNU along with other items, it was a complete package to enable Psychic News to continue to exist as an independent newspaper and retain its heritage. If the SNU is now looking to grab the archives and the title and claim them as its own, it will raise many new questions about the union's motives and morality, as well as the legality of what it is doing.

How can it strip those assets from Psychic Press (1995) and claim to own them? The SNU is already taking a battering from ardent supporters of the weekly newspaper, and this latest revelation is going to alienate even more Spiritualists.

Clearly, we haven't heard the last of this whole sorry saga, and I look forward to hearing how the SNU intends to justify its position over these essential assets. A newspaper's archives – its cuttings, photo library and reference books – are its lifeblood and without them there can be no life after death!

I have been trying to understand the extraordinary behaviour of the SNU in the way it has closed down the world's only weekly Spiritualist newspaper. It is quite baffling. One possible interpretation is that it has decided to produce Psychic News as its own publication and has laid claim to the newspaper's archives and other assets in order to do so, leaving very little to sell off when the company is liquidated. If that is its plan, I believe that to be illegal and I suggest it changes its mind very quickly before it finds itself in deep trouble.

If Psychic Press (1995) Ltd goes into liquidation, the above mentioned items must be among the assets which the liquidator puts up for sale to the highest bidder. It is essential that what is sold by the liquidator raises as much as possible for the newspaper's creditors.

Needless to say, I and many others will be examining the events surrounding Psychic News' demise and the actions of those involved very closely and challenging any attempt by the SNU to hijack assets that do not belong to it."

by jock Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:00 am

Well well its seems the writer has had his ego knocked and does not like it. There are experts on asset stripping and company litigation within the ranks of the SNU who know it from a to z. The NEC will do what they like and there is nothing any-one can or will do about it. Any-way in the end a better indipendant paper might come out of it and the SNU might have its own paper. At least then we will know the politics and ethics of them both.///

by Admin Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:21 am

almera wrote:Well well its seems the writer has had his ego knocked and does not like it. There are experts on asset stripping and company litigation within the ranks of the SNU who know it from a to z. The NEC will do what they like and there is nothing any-one can or will do about it. Any-way in the end a better indipendant paper might come out of it and the SNU might have its own paper. At least then we will know the politics and ethics of them both.///

No Almeera sounds like an SNU member getting defensive here. This is a very serious misdeed if this is what they are doing and if it is what has happened they need to be brought to account not excused.

Any new paper needs those archives and the staff.

I am sure we will hear more of the fate of the staff and more will come out of NEC misdeeds and poor ethics soon. It really is time SNU members pulled their heads out of the sand, where they hide in case they draw the baleful eye of the NEC upon them and started pushing for change.

This is the biggest disgrace in the history of the SNU the defining moment of a new President yet the stongess comment is
Any-way in the end a better indipendant paper might come out of it and the SNU might have its own paper. At least then we will know the politics and ethics of them both
.

You moan and complain at times yet always want to have a bet each way. Call it for once, this is an apalling act yet a Scotsman wants to dissemble and equivocate in the land of Wallace and Bruce your National heroes.

by jock Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:20 am

I see Susan Farrow has joined the site maybe the lady will give her own version of the events.

by Bill Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:29 am

She will, when she is good and ready. It must be realised that up untill now her hands have been tied. Just give her a little time for the trauma to wear off and I am sure that we will, at last, hear some truth about the matter.

Bill

by hiorta Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:56 am

Admin wrote:This is the biggest disgrace in the history of the SNU

I would suggest that although it is a major revelation of a step in SNU thinking, it is not the biggest disgrace.
Pride of place for this must be reserved for SNU duplicity when the reneged on their word, to put the donated Stansted Hall and considerable sum of money, to the use they agreed with their benefactor, Arthur Findley.
They were careful not to return the donation to the Arthur Findley family.

Does asset stripping stop with a minor asset, or is this this the thin edge of an aquisitive wedge?

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