Physical Mediumship what is Energy versus Ectoplasm

Hi All,

On another thread Mac has asked a very good question,

I asked in another thread what is meant by 'working with energy'. (yes I'm well aware of the claims once made by the NSSF! )

I'd still like an explanation if anyone can help me?

My response was...

Hmm Mac what a question maybe we should start a thread and see if anyone can give an answer.

Indeed I'm not sure any one person could give an answer that all would agree too. It appears that the Mediums working in this area approach it from a variety of ways to obtain different results. Indeed some are, like the Scole Experiment with voice/video coming closer to an EVP ITC approach.

The Scole Experiments were trying to use a form of energy but it seems to me, by the way the whole thing ended that this was inherently unstable. Clearly there was proven phenomena, in the eyes of the entirely credible independent researchers but I can't really see the point of a lot of what was received by the group in terms of the old pictures and apports. Nor can I see that the material which was verified fully supported some of the more extreme items to create a believable whole picture. A fascinating experiment which ended in an unsatisfactory way, leaving a lot of questions about the wisdom and knowledge involved Spirit side when it had to be shut down in "Stargate" type circumstances.

I believe if we are using energy what we are likely to see is a holographic image. This is like the idea of
Etherialisation to quote a definition - "This phenomenon is not so widely known as its sister-phenomenon, Materialisation. It is said that in the early days of physical mediumship, if there was insufficient ectoplasm available to clothe a spirit form, then energies were used to form what looked like a holographic effect, thereby providing physical evidence of spirit without the inherent dangers to the medium. This phenomenon has been seen as recently as the 1980s so it is still utilised by spirit on occasion and is very effective." It was my understanding that in the 1980's people thought that this was the direction to go in, it could take place in the light and was safe for the medium. I also believed this was a method that Gordon Higginson used.

Now two Wednesdays ago in out platform medium training Group Lis had a new guide approach her to try an experiment given the energy in the room and group. Sitting one person (chosen at random) in the corner we all focused our energy on them (and clearly the circle guides and our personal guides joined in). The result was that in front of their face a whole series of different faces appeared as if it was a video screen, male, female, bearded, glasses etc in rapid succession. Swapping the group member for another did not change anything, once we focused we had a steady stream of faces all clearly seen with the white lights partially dimmed for both members and we all saw the same faces.

Fascinating experiment afterwards the energy in the room was noticeably depleted and doing a clairvoyant exercise much harder than normal. Clearly to me we were achieving this holographic effect and I have been aware of other times, even on a Sunday when the energy levels have been high enough to potentially achieve these results in a darkened room in daylight. Conceptually and instinctively I feel this is a possibility which is neither dependent upon a single medium or trance to get some form of result. Clearly the group involved is not sitting for physical mediumship but to develop platform mediumship. Lis and I are interested in developing phenomena but if it is to happen it will be with the old rule book thrown away because potentially telekinetic phenomena in dark rooms holds no interest for us, given our dedication to evidential mediumship.

So I believe this is one form of using energy to create an image of a person in spirit. Now to create one full form solid to touch that could speak.....one just wonders what level of energy would be required. I suspect that one element of the Scole may be needed their voice collector/generator.

However, I still wonder is the whole world truly ready for undeniable proof of survival in the form of a truly scientifically provable solid person materialised among us. Philosophically I think Spirit may be aware that some would manipulate and misuse this new truth. The fact that we now could prove people survive death may not be perceived by some as a reason not to kill or fight wars.

It may, at the moment be better that we hone up those skills we have to be a comfort to the bereaved, those involved with the terminally ill and those who understand the relevance of this knowledge of continued life.

Anyway lets hope we get some thoughts on what people perceive this new energy mediumship is about.

Jim

Just an update we tried the same exercise yesterday different people acting as the target and with one new member in the group. Weather conditions very different this week as it was a calmer night with no electrical activity. Once again the faces appeared, although there were less and they remained in place longer. One was perceived to even be turning their head to look around the room.

This week the energy level was sustained beyond that activity allowing teh Mediumship Exercices to continue unhindered.

Interesting exercise going on between Lis and this new guide but we do not know where any of it will lead. Equally as the group primary aim is to develop future platform mediums and enhance existing skills it has to remain an adjunct to that.

Anyone any other ideas on energy?

Jim

Well after my last physical sitting iam not sure if its just energy iam working with so iam no wiser now than 2 years ago. Duncan

"The Scole Experiments were trying to use a form of energy but it seems to me, by the way the whole thing ended that this was inherently unstable."

The nearest I can remember the 'mission statement' is that we had been told all along that one of the aims of the so-called Scole Experiment was that phenomena were to become predictable, reliable, repeatable. (these might be my words??)

I'd always thought that these three descriptors were amongst the most important points in the whole venture. Without them it's back to being unable to reliably demonstrate what is being claimed.

"A fascinating experiment which ended in an unsatisfactory way, leaving a lot of questions about the wisdom and knowledge involved Spirit side when it had to be shut down in "Stargate" type circumstances."

quite! I'm still horrified at what had been reported in the last few editions of 'Spiritual Scientist'.

"However, I still wonder is the whole world truly ready for undeniable proof of survival in the form of a truly scientifically provable solid person materialised among us. Philosophically I think Spirit may be aware that some would manipulate and misuse this new truth. The fact that we now could prove people survive death may not be perceived by some as a reason not to kill or fight wars." I am sad to say that these are the conclusions I have reached too. As I have posted elsewhere, I feel more certain now than ever that Modern Spiritualism has run its course. In time something else will emerge - when the time is right.

"It may, at the moment be better that we hone up those skills we have to be a comfort to the bereaved, those involved with the terminally ill and those who understand the relevance of this knowledge of continued life." Yes I'd totally agree with this. On an individual, personal level the message of survival is as clear and relevant now as it ever was. This is what needs to be focussed on.

"Interesting exercise going on between Lis and this new guide but we do not know where any of it will lead. Equally as the group primary aim is to develop future platform mediums and enhance existing skills it has to remain an adjunct to that." I'd say that's a wonderful way to go.

"Well after my last physical sitting iam not sure if its just energy iam working with so iam no wiser now than 2 years ago. Duncan" What an honest assessment. Good on yer! I guess if it's important that you know, Duncan, then you will...and if not then go with whatever it is!

Hmm Third week with faces Lis's turn in the corner less of us in teh group with Easter. Lis sat down and the faces started appearing very early. One of the first was very clearly a Nun who Lis drew many years ago. Male and female small large different hair and some looking round.

Last ones did not want to go most clearly the male North American Indian face with paint accross the nose.

As we cut off the light in the room which had become brighter dimmed down substantially quite freaky really no one was near the dimmer.

Given this is a group developing platform Mediumship the phenomena is very interesting.

Jim

We found problems with dimmer switches in seances held by the NAS. You really need an electrical engineer to set up the lighting to eliminate any doubts.

Hi Z,

At this stage we are not to worried about that, we have never had light changes like that in the room and no one was near the dimmer. As this is totally experimental at this time we are playing it to the call of the guide who is talking to Lis. Its also important to remember that the primary aim of this group is developing platform mediumship

Fascinating because it has now appeared in front of every group member without any trance.

Fascinating indeed, Jim. I look forward to further developments.

Well it is interesting we had a new member attend last night coming out of my Foundation course but recently arrived from the UK and a closed development group. She sat as the target and the faces appeared again changing at great speed, all types, male and female. So the phenomena is not person or group structure dependent at all.

I found a good defition of Etherialisation from the 1920's which really shows the difference with Materialisatio (which is the next point in the book on the same page.
2. The etherialisation. This is a further advance in compara
tive solidity or substance, and this slight advance along the road
to complete materialisation renders the spirit body visible to
normal human sight, so that it can be seen by several persons
at the same time.
This is from p289 of
MAN'S SURVIVAL
AFTER DEATH
OR, THE OTHER SIDE OF LIFE
IN THE LIGHT OF
SCRIPTURE, HUMAN EXPERIENCE, AND
MODERN RESEARCH
BY
CHARLES L. TWEEDALE
VICAR OF WESTON, OTTLEY Fourth Edition published in 1920
http://iapsop.com/ssoc/1920__tweedale___mans_survival_after_death.pdf

wow!  It's rare to have anyone active here at all and the last entry in this thread is dated 2009 - 14 years ago!

ps I've just taken a look further back when the thread was being worked and saw I'd even made a contribution to it myself. My god all that's such a long time ago and in the intervening years there doesn't seem to have been any change to the situation concerning physical mediumship and phenomena.

Hi Mac,

Its interesting I just subsribed to a new Facebook Page The Nuts and Bolts of Spirit Contact and one thread touched onthe issue of ectoplasm (hmmm) and Energy. This is essentially what this thread was about so I linked it and then realised I had not atributed my first comment to anyone so I looked for a definition of Etherialisation so if anyone follws the link I put on Facebook they will find one. Its actually for a change a good and thoughtful Group I am glad I joined, I was drawn to it when they linked a video of Tao Seng which I made for a zoom meeting.

I have linked a number of the threads on here its amazing what a resource this forum is. Maybe it will kick me to getting more on here again.

Its a long time ago it started.

Jim

hi Jim

It's interesting to hear you've found an interesting Facebook special interest page. Sadly what I found when joining a fair number over several months was mostly drivel. I'll hunt out the one you've mentioned to see if it appeals to me.

It's interesting how you see your website as a resource.  It's certainly no longer a discussion forum based website, a situation similar to that of AfterLifeForums (ALF), the website I now administrate.

As with Spiritualism Link, the early days of ALF saw many becoming not just members but also active contributors to many wide-ranging discussions.  But as other media gained popularity the attraction of forum threads appeared to have waned.  Members left, fewer joined and little by little ALF has become nothing more than a potential resource.  

I say a "potential resource" deliberately because I am unpersuaded that ancient discussions are an attraction to new seekers of understanding.  Unfortunately ALF's web software offers no detailed way for me to check that out or even see how many unregistered visitors may be looking around the website.  But I do see how most new ALF members don't sign in longer than a couple of weeks and hardly any write anything.

I have concluded folk nowadays are not interested in structured forum discussions and part of that I feel sure is that folk are more comfortable with smartphones and simple apps. than with computer web browsers.  Forums began as a marvelous, novel communication medium allowing folk from all over the world to communicate with one another but now they're old hat.  Phone apps enable real-time linking to anyone anywhere but they discourage thoughtful interaction with others.

I couldn't find the page you've mentioned, Jim. Would you please post me a link?

This is that group Mac, the discussions are interesting and advertising toned down. Of course as with anything it depends upon who joins in and the topics. Unlike a forum topics in social media will drop off the radar and be lost fairly quickly. I could probably trim this forum back quite a lot if i had the time to prune out the dead wood. https://www.facebook.com/groups/559582038925689

Admin wrote:This is that group Mac, the discussions are interesting and advertising toned down. Of course as with anything it depends upon who joins in and the topics. Unlike a forum topics in social media will drop off the radar and be lost fairly quickly. I could probably trim this forum back quite a lot if i had the time to prune out the dead wood. https://www.facebook.com/groups/559582038925689

That link wouldn't allow me access to it, Jim, but I found a few physical mediumship groups listed by a search on Facebook, none of them mentioning "nuts and bolts" though.

Over several months of I joined quite a number of special-interest pages on Facebook, each with a spiritually based or mediumship based focus. I found every one hopeless for discussions though, the scrolling format being a major frustration along with a fair number of barmy comments plus of course the inescapable, usually poorly-presented advertisements. I quickly gave up on every one when I found so few contributors able to express themselves clearly, many often wanting just to talk about themselves and their personal issues. This will sound precious but additionally the standard of writing is often so abysmally poor that I just can not be bothered to read it.

My reaction to your thought about pruning dead wood from your website is that it might not be worth the time and effort you'd need to give to the task. Over on ALF, for example, I set myself the task of removing as much as practicable of the junk our old friend the troll (who also appeared here on SL) dumped into its threads. There was a lot! Even though I could find much of it comparatively quickly using the search utility it still took me ages to wade through deleting each individual posting leaving other members' postings in place. The alternative would have been to delete the whole thread along with other members' postings, clearly very unfair.

It's easy enough to delete whole threads without reviewing what's in them but that way you might be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

mac wrote:That link wouldn't allow me access to it, Jim, but I found a few physical mediumship groups listed by a search on Facebook, none of them mentioning "nuts and bolts" though.

mac, the Nuts & Bolts of Spirit Contact facebook group is set to private, so Jim or another member would have to invite you

Slatewriter wrote:

mac wrote:That link wouldn't allow me access to it, Jim, but I found a few physical mediumship groups listed by a search on Facebook, none of them mentioning "nuts and bolts" though.

mac, the Nuts & Bolts of Spirit Contact facebook group is set to private, so Jim or another member would have to invite you

I saw that earlier and concluded the same - looks like I ain't gonna be able to join 'em them! Maybe no great loss for me but I'll never know. lol

mac wrote:

Slatewriter wrote:

mac wrote:That link wouldn't allow me access to it, Jim, but I found a few physical mediumship groups listed by a search on Facebook, none of them mentioning "nuts and bolts" though.

mac, the Nuts & Bolts of Spirit Contact facebook group is set to private, so Jim or another member would have to invite you

I saw that earlier and concluded the same - looks like I ain't gonna be able to join 'em them!  Maybe no great loss for me but I'll never know.  lol  

Thanks Saltewriter! Mac given we are not linked on Facebook not sure how I could invite you Mac Oh well, it is a good group. Mark you I havve melllowed down in old gae and many seem to have our views on the state of current Physical Mediums thankfully.

Admin wrote:

mac wrote:

Slatewriter wrote:

mac wrote:That link wouldn't allow me access to it, Jim, but I found a few physical mediumship groups listed by a search on Facebook, none of them mentioning "nuts and bolts" though.

mac, the Nuts & Bolts of Spirit Contact facebook group is set to private, so Jim or another member would have to invite you

I saw that earlier and concluded the same - looks like I ain't gonna be able to join 'em them!  Maybe no great loss for me but I'll never know.  lol  

Thanks Saltewriter! Mac given we are not linked on Facebook not sure how I could invite you Mac Oh well, it is a good group. Mark you I havve melllowed down in old gae and many seem to have our views on the state of current Physical Mediums thankfully.

I sent Lis a message, Jim, from my Facebook page. Maybe you could ask her to reply on your behalf so you could then put my name forward for joining the p.m. group?