assisted

Where does Modern Spiritualism stand as a body concerning so-called assisted dying? Does it stand anywhere, is there an overall view of the situation, do we have any spirit guidance on this emotive subject?

Do we have anything to offer?

With MPs soon to have a free vote - according to their conscience, without being whipped - what would Spiritualist guidance be about choosing to end one's life prematurely? When faced by the near-certainty of it happening in six months time or less.....

Do we still toe the line that we do not have the right?

Dear mac,
A very good question.My reading of suicide and I suppose assisted dying could be included in this, in spirit literature, is one of great understanding,love and tolerance
from the spirits.Nobody is sanctioned.If one believes in a personal life review then one is given the opportunity
under very loving and supportive conditions to review the circumstances which brought one
to make this decision and to learn from it.
This is a personal view point somewhat influenced by life experience.
Regards
Stephen

Nice to hear from you, Stephen. Thank you for making the effort to give me your take on those matters. It's interesting you're the only one to feel moved to offer their thoughts out of the very many new members who joined recently.

I guess Spiritualism means different things to different folk but who aside from Modern Spiritualists have any real understanding of the notion of survival and/or the reasons we're here at all? Assisted dying has more relevance now than ever it did because modern medicine can keep individuals alive beyond a point where in earlier times they would have passed over.

Nowadays we are all faced with considering if that's the right thing to do yet comparatively few have any understanding about death and what follows. And just because medicines CAN keep bodies alive doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way when prolonged suffering also accompanies it.

I'm comfortable saying I don't know how I feel about the situation - I'm conflicted just as I'm conflicted about abortion.

Mac, most of the new members are focused elsewhere. I am not sure your wording welcomes them to join the discussion.

My take, from messages about, from and as a result of the accident that is suicide is that Spirit provides huge support.

Many parts of Australia now support the idea of assisted dying and I can see no reason why Spirit would not provide similar back up.

Mac how do you see harakiri as practiced by the Japanese samuri ?
Could one place such actions in the same basket as assisted dying ?
I feel the totality of a persons life is what  determines a persons place,
certainly initially in the afterlife and not just how they die.
I do agree with Jim on this idea of backup and support.
I feel mediums can play an important role in bringing comfort to
family members whose relatives have chosen assisted dying or suicide.
Stephen

I'm baffled by hara-kiri but my own thoughts were about one particular issue.  

If an individual were to want to end their life early, perhaps because they faced death preceded by months of suffering and maybe immobility, lack of autonomy etc, should that individual have to travel - as many do - to a centre in a foreign country or a different State to end her/his life ?  

We all have personal views on the matter but what might Modern Spiritualism have to say given its special insight and approach?  Or will we always approach the situation at a personal level because what we each see and feel is shaped by our individual spiritual progression?

Ah! yes I see what you are getting at.
I can not give you answer but I will do some research and see if I can discover something.
Maybe some one more knowledgeable can offer a suggestion

In times past we might have looked to the teachers/guides who influenced our Spiritualist movement so much. But assisted dying is not - as far as I'm aware - something they offered guidance about.

Hi mac,
I found something from Abu Talks vol two.
Chapter 14 titled "the Act of Suicide".
Lots of information.Far too much to even summarize here.

As far as Abu goes he does not seem to be nearly as popular
as Silver Birch(just an impression I get but maybe I am mistaken),so I am not sure how easy to find his books.
I hope this helps.
Stephen

skfarblum wrote:Hi mac,
I found something from Abu Talks vol two.
Chapter 14 titled "the Act of Suicide".
Lots of information.Far too much to  even summarize here.

As far as Abu goes he does not seem to be nearly as popular
as Silver Birch(just an impression I get but maybe I am mistaken),so I am not sure how easy to find his books.
I hope this helps.
Stephen

thanks for this, Stephen.  

Your mentioning his name reminded me I used to own one or more books of his compiled guidance.  I had totally forgotten!  I don't remember what he said but I'd guess it's little different from what other guides/teachers have said concerning suicide.  Assisted dying may be for similar reasons as those for suicide but it is likely to be for very different ones.

I've seen it written there's no reason for us to fear death or wish to be immortal because of what we (Spiritualists) know from guidance provided in the past.  Why, then, should we strive to stay alive for a few more months by using horribly powerful chemicals which often make us dreadfully sick?  Is that a good death?  Wouldn't it be compassionate to provide a way for individuals to choose when and how they die rather than face a lingering, painful, increasingly debilitating miserable end to their lives?  We don't do it with our beloved pets so why would we treat our beloved family and friends differently?

Suicide due to acute or chronic mental illness is a very different issue.

Yes I do agree with your sentiments.
I did not read Abu's talk but I think I will and
see what he has say.
I will report back if I find anything of interest.
Anyway thank you for bringing the subject up.
Much appreciated.

I am not sure I would, in the end, listen to the guides, Silver Birch rejected transplants and even blood transfusion. Guide or a touch of his Mothers strict Jewish back ground coming through Barbanells subconscious. We also have to remember that all the big name guides said there would be no World War 2. To many problems and difficulties in trance.

Remember we are left to deal with our life not be guided through it This is our decision, those waiting for us will not reject our arrival. Thank God my readings have never given an inkling of the Rev. G. Vale Owen ghastly  Life Beyond the Veil, wher suicides are to be found in a mire in te dark...typical church approach reflected in "Automatic Writing", the most depressing vision of life beyond death I ahve ever seen. One of many variations given by some of our would be "guides"

I am not touching on my many experiences with messages from people who have met with that terrible accident called badly by us Suicide. Nor the very moving reading with a Lady who's son died of an overdose, but only after she had fought to turn off the life support after 3 years in a Catholic Private Hospital.

South Australia is enlightened we now allow assisted death, the local Murdoch Press tried to re stir the pot. The man who was seeking it rather than because he could not get help.

In respect of guides, as with most other aspects of survival etc., I follow the 'Silver Birch test' by accepting only what appeals to my reason.  Following also what he taught, I apply the test to what HE said as much as to any other source of 'information'.

Pondering the situation early this morning I was told that no matter how high the apparent level of spiritual progress of a spirit communicator - even that of so-called guides - they are not omniscient or perfect.  

Add to that the difficulty they face by having to use 'step down transformers' - human 'go betweens' whose personal views /prejudices may bleed through into a communication - and it's very likely that errors will creep into the communicated details.

On reflection, then, it's evident to me that Modern Spiritualism doesn't provide any guidance on this or other, emotive subjects such as abortion.  Other than about survival I don't think Spiritualism provides guidance on much else and that's exactly how it should be, I think.

Dear mac,
A questioner at the seance asked a question pertaining to people who are
in terrible pain and suffering and think of taking their lives either by their own hand
or through other means.

Abu in his answer makes it very clear Spirit does not give advice.No matter what
the person does that person will always be received with understanding,love and compassion.

In his  talk Abu explains about what he calls spiritual concomitant which in simple
language means we should take into our decisions the understanding that what survives the body is our spirit and everything we do is reflected in our spirit.
If we can tolerate these very difficult times and we surmount and overcome
these trials our spirit will become stronger and thus ascends.

Brilliant contributions from both of you. We need to share these thoughts.

Dear Jim,
High praise indeed.Thank you so much.
I consider it a privilege and an honour to
contribute  to your forum.
And mac I always enjoy talking to you.
Thank you
Bless you both

It will sound dreadfully blasé but I've known for so long about the overall situation concerning our not being judged after death etc. that I can't now be sure of the source of the info - it might well have been SB though.  Whatever the source of the guidance I have no qualms about how I'll be treated or by whom.  In terms of judging behaviours I expect I may be my worst judge!

I used to think that the best we manage to handle whatever life brings the less the chance we'll wish we did it better and the less risk we'll feel the need to return to do it better in a new incarnation.  I now see things differently.  

In the early times after my 'awakening' to the notion of survival (and much else that followed on for me) I was conflicted by the simplistic teaching that only God can give or take life.  I now see things differently.

One thing is for sure.  Before very long - and maybe way sooner than I'm expecting! - I may be considering these matters from the other side of the divide.  Always assuming I have any interest left concerning such matters!    

skfarblum wrote:Dear Jim,
High praise indeed.Thank you so much.
I consider it a privilege and an honour to
contribute  to your forum.
And mac I always enjoy talking to you.
Thank you
Bless you both

Thanks skfarblum

mac wrote:It will sound dreadfully blasé but I've known for so long about the overall situation concerning our not being judged after death etc. that I can't now be sure of the source of the info - it might well have been SB though.  Whatever the source of the guidance I have no qualms about how I'll be treated or by whom.  In terms of judging behaviours I expect I may be my worst judge!

I used to think that the best we manage to handle whatever life brings the less the chance we'll wish we did it better and the less risk we'll feel the need to return to do it better in a new incarnation.  I now see things differently.  

In the early times after my 'awakening' to the notion of survival (and much else that followed on for me) I was conflicted by the simplistic teaching that only God can give or take life.  I now see things differently.

One thing is for sure.  Before very long - and maybe way sooner than I'm expecting! - I may be considering these matters from the other side of the divide.  Always assuming I have any interest left concerning such matters!    

I worry as that time gets closer I may get to meet some of those who I bring messages through for others. I am sure there
is no blame involved just love.

skfarblum wrote:Dear mac,
A questioner at the seance asked a question pertaining to people who are
in terrible pain and suffering and think of taking their lives either by their own hand
or through other means.

Abu in his answer makes it very clear Spirit does not give advice.No matter what
the person does that person will always be received with understanding,love and compassion.

In his  talk Abu explains about what he calls spiritual concomitant which in simple
language means we should take into our decisions the understanding that what survives the body is our spirit and everything we do is reflected in our spirit.
If we can tolerate these very difficult times and we  surmount and overcome
these trials our spirit will become stronger and thus ascends.

I have absolutely no concerns that our friends in spirit will not condemn us mortals for what we do or fail to do. It is, after all, never their position to sit in judgement on the actions or omissions of others.

Abu hasn't given any guidance about ending our natural course of life prematurely but in the back of my mind I am pretty sure I've read from another teacher/guide that we should not do so.  That doesn't mean I'm necessarily persuaded by such teaching!  

I do think, though, that on our return we may feel that bringing about a premature end to life might have been a less satisfactory action than had we felt able to let it run its natural course.  But I think there will be many potential regrets about many other actions in our incarnate lives.    

Very sensible attitude mac.
I like it.