Hi all! Is there anyone here?

Hmm Torekka depends a bit whether you are a Christian Spiritualist of a Rational Spiritualist. Rational is non Christian by definition. I see that Hiorta has introduced you to Sir Arthur Findlay you can find more about him here http://spiritcommunion.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/legacy-of-j-arthur-findlay.html
He was very much disliked by Christians but his books are well worth a read.

Back to rational no heaven no hell, no Holy Trinity no Jesus saving us thats our own job. Hell may not be a place but from readings I have given people, where the person lived what we may see as a bad life (violence etc; Spirit would not see many of the things our own biases, bigotry and dislikes make us think our bad in teh same way we see them), I get comments from them like I am not in hell but having to experience what I did to others makes it feell like I am.

Oh and Spiritualism does not encompass Reincarnation for a variety of reasons, especially as Karmic punishment, you deal with this life back in Spirit.

Like Hiorta I do not see the Bible as the teachings of jesus, indeed, if he existed (there is a significant question even about that and where he really came from) and from what people put up as the new testament he did not like the old testament or its 10 Commandments. (Hmm Of course if he had taught that rejection of teh older teachings the Jewish Rekigion would have stoned him to death much earlier.

These Commandments were so frequently thrust down our throats by religous teachers who did not like to say anything about the much softer version that the man they claimed to follow espoused (I grew up when English Vicars actually ttended to support Apartheid, some on religous grounds like the ultra religous Boers, even as a 14 year old I detested it).

It is many years ago, pre even knowing about Spiritualism that I rejected Christianity, but accepting God and also the inate goodness of mankind in general.

Snap Jim could not digest any more after 13 years old. All of the religious understandings do produce both people that seem to be of the highest and the lowest, so no help there in establishing Truth. 
In any case that task falls to those who subscribe to those ideas.
Like some politicians, theologians can change course as the winds of knowledge change. Seamlessly too.

All people are capable of rising to new heights of service to others who may be less fortunate than they are, whether from within any religion or not.

Torekka wrote:I heard leftbehind say someting similar about spiritism becoming like voodoo, something about poor chickens? Say speaking of voodoo we in South Africa have anscestor worship and sangomas that apparently talk to spirits though it's generally believed by Christians to be demons mascarading as spirits. If I were to make my own observations I don't find their practices positive but I'm somewhat sceptical demons are involved.

I don't remember my own quote exactly, Torekka!

I did say something to the effect that 'Spiritualism was becoming more like Spiritism and Spiritism was becoming more like voodoo'. I mean that Spiritualism was adopting the belief in reincarnation to the point where DISbelieving in it now seems to be a minority viewpoint.

Also that the folkish variety of Spiritism was much akin to voodoo, and that this seems to be the faster growing sector of Spiritism. The Spiritism of Allan Kardec or as being promulgated by the BUSS or the US Spiritist Federation is, of course, not anything like voodoo.

Reincarnation - real or not?
It might be helpful if it was understood just what aspects of Life reincarnated. There must be a variety of views as to what this means, but with no clear answer. If we knew more of this it could shed some light on the question.
The life of Leonardo da Vinci offers much to consider as does the life of Edgar Cayce, both different but  both relevant to the topic.

hiorta wrote:Reincarnation - real or not?
It might be helpful if it was understood just what aspects of Life reincarnated. There must be a variety of views as to what this means, but with no clear answer. If we knew more of this it could shed some light on the question.
The life of Leonardo da Vinci offers much to consider as does the life of Edgar Cayce, both different but  both relevant to the topic.

Given how the subject of reincarnation figures so highly in conversations and questions about life, death and surival we - Modern Spiritualists and non MS alike - actually know bugger all and there has been a woefully poor level of acceptable teaching on the subject to boot.

I completely, totally, do not believe in reincarnation.

I'm open to the possibility of it, just as I'm open to the possibility of vampires or werewolves. But I've got to see evidence of it: evidence that convinces me that it actually occurs, not religious teachings about it, or someone's gut reactions about.

We can speculate about 'so how do you explain child prodigies?' but it doesn't occur to us that for every child prodigy there are millions of child non-prodigies. We study cases like the James Huston / Leininger WW 2 pilot case but don't give a thought to the idea that such cases are one case out of millions. And in my opinion, are explained by genetics and / or overshadowing by other spirits, rather than by the person in question having life a previous incarnate life.

(Duplicate post I can't delete)

If there's no reincarnation what does the spirit world look like since heaven and hell aren't real? Or is it even a separate world at all? Personally I'm skeptical about reincarnation too, I'm just curious about what you think on the matter.
@Leftbehind Hi, I believe we may have met on that dead looking Spiritist Forum . Sorry for misquoting you earlier.

Hi Left Behind. Genetics don't seem to be of much help in determining the possibility of reincarnation. To manifest on earth a Soul needs a physical body which is generally held to spring from a male and a female merging, with the as yet unknown means of the new human being combining, around the same time. The new organism needs about 40 years to fully mature, though is capable of independent existence much earlier.
It does seem a highly complicated route to travel with time needed to gain soul expression which may be very different than that of either parent individually and in combination. The genetic imprint, if that is what it is, then seems to be totally independent when Mind enters the equation. Any ideas? 
How could Da Vinci conceive of complex inventions still 3 centuries in the future, requiring unknown technologies, knowledge and skills to develop yet did perform as he said?
This suggests more than reincarnation being at work.

On another website where I'm a regular there's often conversations/debates about the nature of the events we humans perceive of as past, present and future. Leonardo da Vinci might, then, have been accessing a technology that was still to appear in earth's distant future.

I used to doubt such notions but either wisdom - but much more likely curmudgeonly old age - is making me question my youngster-doubt.

And not only that notion but also others I used to dismiss.

This possibility was also waving to me from the back of my mind,mac.
Even more apparently far-fetched was the thought that Da Vinci's knowledge may have come from beyond earth's boundaries - it clearly did not exist on our wee dot at that time.

Infinity and eternity are spoken about in some quarters, but isn't it merely lip service? Why should we have any claim to being civilised - we who kill for amusement and starve others as a means of exerting control far beyond spiritual responsibility?