Psychic News TRUTH campaign to end fraud in physical mediums

Now to be fair Slatewriter, it might be argued that David Thompson was not the only 'person' in the room wearing footwear at the time. It might be argued that dear Louis Armstrong had 'materialised' himself wearing footwear, and it was he who so unfortunately trod on your foot.

I admit that it would be, in historical terms, rather unusual for a 'materialised spirit' to trouble themselves with using up valuable ectoplasmic material to manifest shoes solid enough to tread on a sitters foot, but such an occurrence must not, I fear, be dismissed out of hand.

Certainly, as I understand it, when a similar occurrence happened in the séance/s in Queensland, and many sitters had the astonishing experience of their feet trodden on by another 'materialised spirit,' David Thompson may have suggested that this was nothing more than an example of spirit demonstrating their presence!

Perhaps an unusual way in which to do so, but nevertheless, a possibility, no doubt.

I note, however, that you say that it was as a result of your trodden foot experience that you began to question the entire evening's events, and you could say more.

Can I, perhaps, tempt you to go on? I am sure that there are many who have a great interest in physical mediumship that would appreciate hearing further of your experiences and thoughts on the matter.

Hi there,
Perhaps, also I may add something here. I admit I do have some concerns regarding David Thompsons mediumship. I’m not sure if he was banned from this forum or not, but it would certainly be very interesting if he would be able and willing comment on some of my concerns and questions. However, I stress that the following thoughts are concerns and nothing more, but I still believe that they might be of interest in the ongoing discussions, especially since Gary Mannion has nicely demonstrated how easy it is for a medium to free oneself from the usual binds.
The reasons for my concerns date from a sitting with David Thompson at the Basel Psi Association, April 9, 2011. I took notes about the sitting and most of my concerns during the night after the sitting, and I also obtained an audio recording of this sitting later.

• David Thompson (DT) was bound and gagged at the beginning of this séance. After two songs, William materialized, DT’s main trance control personality. William typically approached the persons he wanted to speak to and touch in this way: From a few meters distance, he asked „May I approach you?“ Usual answer: „Yes.“ Then, William came closer, almost in front of the sitter, and asked „May I touch you?“ Usual answer: “Yes.“ Then, he put his hand on the head, the shoulder, or the knee of the sitter, and spoke to her or him. I found this very peculiar. It looked to me as if somebody tried to locate the body of sitters in the dark. However, this didn’t always work. At one occasion, William wanted to talk to my neighbor to the left, a woman. After the usual questions, he came closer, and gently put his hand on *my* knee, and addressed me with “Lady”. Error, I am a man. Please try the next knee to my left…

• Very early in this sitting, the full materialisation of “Hans Bender” (HB) appeared in the dark. HB is the alleged main trance communicator of Kai Muegge, who was also present at this sitting as a guest sitter. HB’s full materialisation turned to Kai Muegge, and exchanged a few words with him in a very coarse voice that was difficult to understand. The next evening, a sitting with Muegge as the medium took place at the Basel Psi Association – this time, DT was a guest sitter. When HB spoke through the allegedly entranced Muegge, he stressed how difficult it was to materialize and speak through DT the night before, and so on. Given that there are serious concerns about the genuineness of Kai Muegge’s mediumship (personally, I came to believe that there are very good reasons to think that Muegge’s trance control HB is a fake), these strange occurrences raise questions in return about the genuineness of DT’s alleged full materialization HB. If Muegge’s HB really is a fake: How then could DT’s HB possibly be genuine? If one is a fake, the other one must be a fake as well. Moreover, it might be of interest that Kai Muegge and DT are very close (or at least, they were at that time), sharing a maximum of mutual respect for each other. On PM4U, both of them emphatically talked about these two memorable evenings.

• When the different spirits walked around in the room (when they talk, the music is stopped and it is very silent), one could distinctly hear that they wore shoes. Curiously, the sound of the footsteps from all shoes of the different materializations sounded identical. This surprised me, given that the materialized individuals in the séance room were supposed to be discarnate (but clothed) personalities from quite different times and both sexes. Judging upon the audible footsteps, even the materialized child „Tim“ didn’t always walk like little children walk, but very much like all the other adult spirits walked. By the way, the only person in the séance room who wore shoes was DT. All other 40 persons in the room had to take their shoes off outside. Why does DT leave his shoes on? Obviously, there is no need to wear shoes for somebody who sits in trance on a chair. Certainly, it would be very interesting to check if the “materializations” during the séance would still be wearing shoes when DT would have removed his shoes prior to the sitting like everybody else.

• The voices of William, Quentin Crisp and Howard Bloomsbury were very similar and all sounded artificially modulated to me. And, quite obviously, the voice of Tim was not a child’s voice, but a head-voice/falsetto of an adult man. Similarly, the voice of Mae, an alleged female spirit helper of DT, was clearly not a woman’s voice, but that of a man speaking in falsetto (at least, for me).

• After Mae materialized, a very weird and also funny scene began to unfold. Mae went to a female sitter who jokingly complained that she also wanted some attention, after Mae made lots of compliments to a seemingly attractive male sitter in the dark. Yet, this female sitter didn’t understand English very well. Still, she was extremely pleased that Mae came over to her indeed, talked to her, and that Mae even let her feel her hands. Mae joked that this sitter must be a lesbian, etc. Then, Mae invited this sitter to touch her breasts, to make sure that she really was a materialized female spirit. The sitter confirmed that she felt a nice belly. Ups, apparently, something was wrong! Only after a few more attempts to clarify the matters, the sitter understood that Mae was supposed to be a female spirit. All the time, she thought that Mae was the spirit of a man, with the voice of a man, the hands of a man, and the belly of a man. Hm….

• Mae also went on to a sitter with an injured knee. DT had chatted with her outside the séance room prior to the séance. Now, Mae asked where this sitter sat in the darkened séance room, and went to heal this knee. Yet, Mae touched the wrong knee. When the sitter indicated that it was the wrong knee, Mae replied that this (apparently healthy) knee also needed some healing…

• When William approached the female sitter next to me on the left, a grandfather of her allegedly spoke through him. This grandfather had great difficulties talking, but at last, he succeeded in uttering a few words in German. However, both grandfathers of my neighbor were Finnish and they didn’t speak German during their life on earth. Not surprisingly, my neighbor was left a bit perplexed, and she didn’t have the feeling that one of her grandfathers had talked to her.

• When the materialized spirits changed their identities, there was always a loud gargling and choking human sound. Christine, DT’s partner and helper, informed us that this was the sound of ectoplasm streaming into DT’s body, and streaming out again. However, those sound chiefly emanated from the space between the sitters in the middle of the room – not from the cabinet, where DT’s body was supposed to sit. Why?

• Similarly, Christine informed us that the flight of the trumpet, marked with a strap of a greenish phosphorescent glow, was supposed to be performed by ectoplasmic rods emanating from DT who was supposed to sit in the cabinet (not by materialized spirits). Still, the trumpet moved very much like it was moved by human arms, and it never rose higher than an arm could have moved it. Most suspiciously, I heard somebody breathe sharply and gasp very close to the trumpet when it moved closely in front of me at one occasion, i.e. far away from the medium’s cabinet. Who took these breaths – especially, because no materialized spirits were said to be involved in the trumpet flights?

• Close to the end of the sitting, while loud music was playing, I heard a few steps of somebody walking to the center of the room. I even heard a slight bump as if something hard had briefly touched the floor when the steps passed the space in front of me. At that time, I didn’t know that DT’s séances typically end with him sitting on his chair in the middle of the room, still being gagged and bound. Consequently, I was surprised when shortly after, something hit the floor with much noise in the middle of the room, Christine turned the flashlight on, and there was DT, sitting on his chair, gagged and bound. Hm, I wondered: Who walked to the middle of the room not long before, apparently carrying something hard that once even touched the floor?

• In addition, I noticed an apparent psychological trick without deeper meaning. DT wore a jacket during the séance. Before the sitting, he showed the sitters that its buttonholes were tightly locked with cable straps, so that they could not be opened. Yet, at the end of the sitting, when DT had allegedly materialized with his chair in the middle of the room, his jacket had turned around. The locked buttonholes were on his back. Impossible indeed, given his hands had been fastened to the armrests of the chair all the time. However, given that he might have been to able free his arms (like Gary Mannion, for example), there would have been no need to open the buttonholes at all, and also no need to lock them with cable straps. He just would have needed to remove his arms from the sleeves, turn the jacket around, and slip into the exchanged sleeves again. He could even wear a normal jumper or a shirt with different patterns on the front and the back to demonstrate the apparent impossibility to turn such a cloth around – there’s absolutely no need for a jacket and all these cable straps. So, why did DT wear this jacket with these cable straps?

But, were DT’s hands really free during this séance – like Gary Mannion’s hands had been recently? I can’t say, but I certainly don’t exclude it. Again, I stress that my observations are nothing but (strong) concerns, but I hope that it became clearer why I support the TRUTH campaign, and why I hold the opinion that only better controls like employing thermal cameras will be able to dissolve such concerns. All this talking and lamenting of mediums who earn money by holding public séances is clearly not enough to resolve the suspicions that surround all of them to a greater or lesser extent. We need innovation and courage, as I said before.

Mic

Hi Mic,

Thank you for your post. A most interesting review of the concerns you had about a David Thompson sitting at the Basel Psi Association on April 9, 2011.

As you rightly say they were your observations, and strong concerns, and comments and responses to questions raised by David Thompson could indeed provide insight and contribute to the ongoing discussion about the need for better controls and the use of thermal imaging techniques in physical séances.

I feel sure, that many of your concerns would be either resolved or confirmed by the use of thermographic equipment.

Thank you to Mic and Slatewriter for sharing your experiences.

Some concerns from the Queensland séances that were sent to Mr Thompson in an email so he was aware, we also had formal written complaints sent in to the office after the events. You will see there are similar questions raised.

Attendee Concerns About the Séance

Numerous concerns have also been raised directly with me personally in discussions at the Academy by other attendees in the week following the séance. They include the following, however please note that I do not require your response to each of them; they are included to give you an indication of the nature of the concerns that have been referred to me.

• The Students noticed you didn’t remove your eyebrow piercing yet just covered it up with a small plaster when entering the séance situation, as you recommend to everyone that the energy may heat up their jewellery and cause some damage - then why is it you leave yours in and possibly risk a burn?
• The de-materialising of the jumper being natural fibre – attendees are wondering why it was that as the cable ties which could not be de-materialised then would not fall to the ground, and how is it that they are then suspended until the jumper materialises again the other way around?
• When twice the trumpet hit Debbie quite hard on the head and the chin, why was it that the medium was not affected by this as was the case that you spoke of pre the séance. There was no mention of burns or marks on David as a result, yet bruising to Debbie.
• William stood on a few toes as he made his way up to people - is this usual and can you explain why?
• Are the voices in the room direct voice as in completely separate from David via an independent voice box (Leslie Flint style) or are they coming from a different structure? A trained singer in the room noticed the same inflection and tone with the voices as your own.
• William and yourself said in the workshop that the soul does not enter the body until 1st breath, yet when the boy in spirit was not claimed it was then stated it was a miscarriage - the students have been trained on other occasions that miscarriage cannot communicate as of course there is no evidence.
• Upon research, the ‘evidence’ given to one of the attendees from her ‘father’ in spirit cannot be verified by any members of the family, including her mother and matters spoken of ie: a particular photo etc are not known to exist. This leads that particular attendee to question if it was actually her father. I have also attached her letter.
• Also upon doing some research the ‘evidence’ given to another recipient that it was her grandfather who knew her as a little girl. When in fact both her grandfathers had died before she was born….”I'm still not sure about the message I got from spirit from my grandfather who said he was my óther' grandfather...the grandfathers I had died before I was born.”

Deb, that is an interesting list of questions and concerns that have been raised.

I notice one question that seems to have been asked quite a number of times relates to 'materialised spirits' such as William and Louis Armstrong treading on the feet of sitters. Over the years this concern and requests for explanations have been mentioned by sitters that attended séances in Australia, America, and England, and now, based on Mic's post, we know this inexplicable feet treading on habit also occurred in Switzerland.

As for the trumpet hitting someone, again, I believe that this is not the only time such an 'accident' has occurred. It would appear that the 'ectoplasmic rods' that apparently move the trumpet around the séance room are not as yet fully under the spirit's control. Of course, there were a number of sitters at a séance held in America some years back, who felt convinced there was 'someone' holding the trumpet aloft and moving it around the room, as the tape that glows on the trumpet appeared to reflect onto what the sitters felt sure looked like a face.

Quite curious. Perhaps, after all, it is the 'materialised' spirits that are waving the trumpet about, and not ectoplasmic rods emanating from the medium. If so, it unfortunate that they seem also to not be fully in control of their apparatus, this resulting in sitters being dealt a blow or two from time to time. Perhaps the use of thermographic imaging cameras in the séance room would help clarify the nature of the problem.

Certainly, as well, there have been others who have mentioned the similarity in tone and inflection of the different 'spirits' that are heard in the darkened séance room. But perhaps, to be fair to David, that may be inevitable as the 'energy' for producing the voices is surely drawn from the medium and that borrowing of energy may result in some of the medium's own vocal sounds and intonation being blended with that of the various spirits who speak.

Spirit relatives that claim they knew certain sitters when they were young, but who actually passed to spirit before the sitters were born, is, however, a rather more difficult problem to explain. Surely the spirits know whether they were dead or not before the sitter was born. And, I must confess, I find it hard to understand why they, rather than a known and loved relative, would appear, given their materialised presence in the circumstances can hardly be considered as providing evidence for survival.

Of course, the phenomena of the darkened séance room is always somewhat mysterious in nature, and there is yet much that we do not understand about how these things work, at least, that is what I have heard quite a few physical mediums say. Ours is not to question why, we must simply accept and know that 'spirit' has its reasons at this point unfathomable to us mere mortals.

I'm arriving late because of the time difference.  I've added a few responses to some of the points below, purely from the perspective of a layperson without experience of such seances.

Lis wrote:Deb, that is an interesting list of questions and concerns that have been raised.

I notice one question that seems to have been asked quite a number of times relates to 'materialised spirits' such as William and Louis Armstrong treading on the feet of sitters. Over the years this concern and requests for explanations have been mentioned by sitters that attended séances in Australia, America, and England, and now, based on Mic's post, we know this inexplicable feet treading on habit also occurred in Switzerland.

As materialised forms are strong enough to handle physical objects, why would their materialised forms not be strong/solid enough to have materialised feet or even shoes that might tread on the feet of sitters when the forms moved around?

Lis wrote:As for the trumpet hitting someone, again, I believe that this is not the only time such an 'accident' has occurred. It would appear that the 'ectoplasmic rods' that apparently move the trumpet around the séance room are not as yet fully under the spirit's control.

 Is that possibility so unlikely?  It must arguably be tricky to master the technique and mistakes might be made. Why should an accident be surprising?

Lis wrote:Of course, there were a number of sitters at a séance held in America some years back, who felt convinced there was 'someone' holding the trumpet aloft and moving it around the room, as the tape that glows on the trumpet appeared to reflect onto what the sitters felt sure looked like a face.

Why not a materialised form holding that particular trumpet?  

Quite curious. Perhaps, after all, it is the 'materialised' spirits that are waving the trumpet about, and not ectoplasmic rods emanating from the medium. If so, it unfortunate that they seem also to not be fully in control of their apparatus, this resulting in sitters being dealt a blow or two from time to time. Perhaps the use of thermographic imaging cameras in the séance room would help clarify the nature of the problem.

Certainly, as well, there have been others who have mentioned the similarity in tone and inflection of the different 'spirits' that are heard in the darkened séance room. But perhaps, to be fair to David, that may be inevitable as the 'energy' for producing the voices is surely drawn from the medium and that borrowing of energy may result in some of the medium's own vocal sounds and intonation being blended with that of the various spirits who speak.

Lis wrote:Spirit relatives that claim they knew certain sitters when they were young, but who actually passed to spirit before the sitters were born, is, however, a rather more difficult problem to explain. Surely the spirits know whether they were dead or not before the sitter was born.  

 Isn't it possible that spirit communicators get things wrong just like we incarnates do?  We can't stand in their shoes and know how it feels to them when they have to 'cast their minds' back to the times in question, trying to recall the correct chronological sequences of events.  If grandparents had passed before the incarnation of their grandchild they might then know something of the spirit about to incarnate as their grandchild. And maybe then they get confused about the exact chronology?

Lis wrote: And, I must confess, I find it hard to understand why they, rather than a known and loved relative, would appear, given their materialised presence in the circumstances can hardly be considered as providing evidence for survival.

 Do the discarnates who attend a seance always come just to prove survival?  Oh sure it's what we Spiritualists see as most important but even in this world some folk appear more excited by phenomena than they are by the reason for those phenomena.  Should we assume that all discarnates are interested in demonstrating via a seance and mediumship their continued existence? Perhaps they're just following events from their world out of curiosity but find themselves linking to someone they have a familial, or even friendship, connection.  Do all those who had a deep interest in survival before their death retain it after their passing and strive to reach out to prove their continuing existence?  Or might it be that there are far more exciting things to do in the world(s) 'over there'?

Lis wrote:Of course, the phenomena of the darkened séance room is always somewhat mysterious in nature, and there is yet much that we do not understand about how these things work, at least, that is what I have heard quite a few physical mediums say. Ours is not to question why, we must simply accept and know that 'spirit' has its reasons at this point unfathomable to us mere mortals.

 

Yes and no as I see things.  Yes that phenomena are mysterious and not understood but no to our just accepting what we're given.  The discarnates with whom certain privileged mortals interact may have little more understanding about what's going on than the incarnates. It seems they're unprepared/unwilling/unable to offer any more detailed insight than we already have about what goes on. Continuing to focus on phenomena appears to yield little - if any - new information and leads to disagreement and unpleasantness.  Why keep doing it, one wonders?

https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2386-evidence#20476

I'm looking forward to reading the responses from member COSC2014 so I've moved my observations to a new thread whose link is posted above.

That way it won't disrupt the flow....  

Lis wrote:'materialised spirits' such as William and Louis Armstrong treading on the feet of sitters...

From my understanding, Spirit can see perfectly well in the darkened seance room - there is NO need for them to make such silly mistakes.
Back in the 1980s, researcher Maurice Grosse arranged a trap for a materialised spirit at a Rita Goold seance. He put trip wires around the room, and when a young spirit boy materialised, he rushed round the room and was able to avoid every one !

Lis wrote:Perhaps, after all, it is the 'materialised' spirits that are waving the trumpet about...

Why on earth would they? We already know the trumpet is a tool used purely for the amplification of spirit voices and nothing more. (Yes they're waved about in time to music on occasions) but the natural progress of seance phenomena means the trumpet becomes redundant once spirit bodies materialise. Surely they don't need a trumpet to speak, once they've materialised? So why bother waving one around?

Lis wrote:Ours is not to question why, we must simply accept and know that 'spirit' has its reasons at this point unfathomable to us mere mortals.

I have to disagree - why shouldn't we question why? Why do we have to accept what the medium tells us - by rights, the medium should not even get into the argument in the first place - are they not meant to be a passive channel throughout? I was under the impression that they shouldn't even be aware of what goes on during a seance - at least they shouldn't if they really are physical mediums!

These are my thoughts at least.

It was a rather tongue in cheek statement I was making, Slatewriter, when I suggested we should not question, and just accept that 'spirit' has their reasons. Personally, I think such claims are utter rubbish.

As for your remarks about why the spirits would be waving the trumpets around, I can only agree. I also agree that 'real' spirits don't have a problem moving around in the dark, but fraudulent mediums often do it would seem!

Ha ha @!@!
yes - I see the humour
Yet, after all the recent crap, I just wish some type of mind-blowing phenomena would knock the 'movement' back into shape...God knows there are enough bereaved out there who need it...

Leroy C has posted something on another thread which is well worth reading in the context of this thread (His comments on Physical mediumship are always worth a read). https://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2096p25-chris-howarth-called-out-as-a-fraud#20493

PHYSICAL MEDIUMSHIP RESEARCH SÉANCE IN FULL LIGHT FROM BEGINNING TO END ( 2 hrs 7 minutes)
Another outstanding research séance with 13 independent observers and 6 home-circle members was accomplished by an outstanding spirit team through their medium in bright LED red, blue and white light. Continuous light from the moment the thoroughly searched medium entered the thoroughly searched room and cabinet, until the medium returned to full consciousness and the sitters again searched the medium and chair and then left the room. Sitters were very clearly seen by each other. The team’s aim for this sitting was to:
• strengthen the light tolerance of the ectoplasm
• to educate the sitters to the process of phenomena
• move the phenomena further away from the cabinet into the fully lightened room and the other 2 empty cabinets.
The overall aim, is to work towards full materialisation, away from the medium, in full light. The spirit team seemed confident to be able to achieve this in the future.
Phenomena included:
Small ectoplasmic feet dancing in the cabinet when cabinet was lifted.
Ectoplasmic extrusion from nose, mouth, both palms and solar plexus, simultaneously, in bright red light, seen by all sitters.
Inital experiments with creation of pictures in the ectoplasm in light
Hand forms hug sitters and shake hands while turning 360 degrees
Black and white hands come out of the top of cabinet and then intertwine
Direct voice through trumpet and observation by sitters of voice-box building and creation of ectoplasmic rods
Etheric face form seen to extrude ectoplasm from nose and mouth
Matter through matter of mediums leg through wooden armrest
Extrusion of ectoplasm in bright white light from nose, mouth, palms and solar plexus for 20-30 seconds twice
3 sitters observed curtains on spare cabinet move around/3 sitters had their chair pushed in from the back Discussions between sitters and communicator included: Raw ectoplasm , luminosity of ectoplasm, matter through matter, voice box building, light photons and coating of ectoplasm, etheric forms, intelligence influencing ectoplasm, ectoplasmic rod construction and more.
Full transcript will be posted on wallaciadevelopmentcentre.com.au website soon

This all sounds too good to be true.
Who was your medium?

Hi Slatewriter,

I think you will find that the alleged medium is Gary Mannion, operating out of the Wallacia Centre in Australia.

Lis

Absolutely Slatewriter they are the only people who refused to accept the evidence from the video taken at Banyan Retreat, Of course the prior reputation of Gary and all those who question his work are also rejected by them. Wallacia is the one centre where he works.

Gary Mannion? Oh dear me....

Precisely Obi; Oh dear us.....

Slatewriter wrote:This all sounds too good to be true.

Prophetic words, Slatewriter.

Funny how quick conclusions are reached. We have 6 physical circles sitting here regularly, so it could be anyone I guess. This is a true account of one of the sittings here and all I do is share what 20 sitters experienced. Maybe for other circles to see what can be achieved. We for one have decided to report on all medium what we experienced and learned in our circles without concentrating on the vessel, as it has served us well. Thanks Inge

We are creating seance reports and developing circle reports pages on the website, including a page for passed on ideas and explanations from different spirit teams, so eventually, you might be able to have a broader picture of what is going on. Thanks for your comment.

Inge wrote:We are creating seance reports and developing circle reports pages on the website, including a page for passed on ideas and explanations from different spirit teams, so eventually, you might be able to have a broader picture of what is going on. Thanks for your comment.  

So is it Gary Mannion?