Chris Howarth Called Out As A Fraud

by TheCanuckian Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:43 pm

Gary Mannion on PM4U

"Lots of suggestions used when Chris was attempting to impersonate Louis Armstrong (I'll explain more why I say Chris impersonate later) also Chris left coughing as he couldn't sustain the voice. I have never seen a deep trance medium have the need to cough...What makes the seance worse is that Chris has admitted afterwards that he had home circle hidden in the audiance. That is something magicians do when they do tricks. Without everyone knowing who they are they could fake phenomena and say they are being touched etc when they are not. If Chris was genuine then that information would of been up front.

The problem with Chris is it is clear this is not a case of someone who is deluded or not as good as they think they are. This is a case of genuine fraud. It is a complete insult to the world of spirit and all those who are trying to do genuine work. It also puts in danger the lives of genuine physical mediums.

If it is atall different Chris then I would offer for you to sit for me and a few others who attended that night. I can guarentee everyone will follow the rules and give you energy treating you as a completely genuine physical medium. However you will be treated (tied up, searched) how any genuine physical medium is. I would personally love to say that I was wrong and that after you meeting general standards for sitting for physical that the phenomena was genuine. Otherwise I think I will be asking for my money back as under the trade description act you made a lot of promises that were not actually even close to the case."

Foy chimes in:

"Hi Everybody,

I think it is time that I got involved with a comment on this posting. I have deleted some of the more recent comments, which I find rude and disrespectful - to all members of PM4U. I must also confirm that I have personally NEVER instructed Chris Howarth in how he should work as a physical medium - ectoplasm-based OR energy-based.

Regrettably, many of our members do not yet fully understand the marked differences between the two seperate ways of working in the field of physical mediumship.

There has been so much personal controversy similar to that on this posting regarding certain physical mediums and developing physical mediums, in which I have often been called to mediate, and which have - on occasions - been the cause of my having to suspend membership for the sake of the harmony of the site.

Open rudeness and direct accusations against any physical medium are not welcome on this site. It is a forum for a genuine adult exchange of views, experiences and information. Any criticism should be of a positive and helpful nature that does not include childish name-calling.

I have stated many times that I will never endorse or comment on any particular mediumship that I have not experienced for myself, giving me the chance to assess the standard and level of that mediumship - occasionally offering advice as to how a medium's development should progress. That tenet holds firm.

However, having spent some time reading many of the posts on this and other threads which appear and have appeared on PM4U, I do feel that there are occasions where demonstrations of physical mediumship are held for the wrong reasons. The main aim of a good physical medium (or experimental group in the case of energy-based physical phenomena) is to bring evidence of survival for the bereaved and members of the public. Often, the phenomena itself is simply a bonus. But the demonstration should be held primarily to help others, and to illustrate the reality of 'life after death'. The income this generates should be a secondary concern.

Of course, genuine and fully developed physical mediums deserve to earn a living from the dedication and commitment they have to their art and the Spirit World - for let us be honest here - all good mediums (mental or physical) should regard themselves as 'Ambassadors for the Spirit World' first and foremost.

But the motivation for being a medium (mental or physical) and doing the work of Spirit should never primarily be just for monetary reasons rather than dedicating their lives to help others understand the real truth that there is no such thing as 'death'.

In my opinion, it is also important that any physical medium who demonstrates to the public should make sure that their development is of a sufficiently high level before working professionally and charging for their services. Of course - every session/demonstration is understood to be an individual experiment, and there can be failures.

Whenever Leslie Flint had a failure during the later years of his mediumship - when we visited him frequently - he always offered to refund the sitters' money, which earned him much respect for his honesty."

Regards,

Robin

It appears our 'mac' is full face on the job there, eh? cheers

by Admin Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:11 am

Interesting, in the past we have had several people on here who have been in trouble on PM4U over their comments on mediums who have clearly been caught out or even have admitted fraud. Indeed one developing physical medium, some years ago, was told he was either with them or, by being active on this forum, against them, in which case he would never be welcome to support or to attend séances.

Clearly nothing changes on PM4U on the basis of that post. Given my position against dark séances and public demonstrations I would never be a welcome member of that forum nor would I wish to be. Anyway just being on this forum keeps me busy enough.

Now is it our mac on there or the alternate mac impersonator who is appearing on other forums causing trouble for the real mac (even down to a claimed address).

by mac Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:13 am

When faced with impersonation - as is the case now I've become a favourite target of this 'mu' character who has also regularly impersonated others - there's little one can do other than to point out my cyber trail of postings made over many years, many or most of them based on Spiritualism's teachings and/or the subjects of mediumship and communication.

Anyone who has known me over these years will see the huge difference between what I've been writing for years, and the drivel (and often sexual filth) that's falsely presented as being from me. Unless one believes I've suddenly, unexplainedly taken to ranting and making perverted remarks and/or swearing, then I hope regular members here and elsewhere will see that the 'real mac' writes in the way I'm doing now and not in the way the impersonator does.

The ones most likely to be taken in by the impersonator are those new to this, and other, forums but he's well-experienced at trouble-making and getting others banned for the offensiveness and disruption he delights in causing. And unless members are also regulars on other websites they are unlikely to see the repeated pattern of impersonation.

mac

by TheCanuckian Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:43 pm

PM4U like any forum has to be looked at with grains of salt. mac's claims I don't care about.

by mac Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:53 pm

TheCanuckian wrote:PM4U like any forum has to be looked at with grains of salt. mac's claims I don't care about.

I think the saying's more like 'taken with a pinch of salt' Rolling Eyes

but I didn't make any claims. I told the truth about the MU!! character and my track record on websites - easy to check.

Right now recent experience has taught me to be cautious about any new website members, and especially any who quote with obvious glee the goings-on from another website. Maybe you're just a troll-in-waiting, perhaps not caring about anything but yourself let alone what you say are my claims?

When you've revealed something of your own self in ~~what~~ your postings - if you ever make any - we'll better understand your approach. From my record you'll easily see I'm a Modern Spiritualist who writes about Spiritualism, mediumship and communication.

What about yourself - prepared to say?

by Admin Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:41 pm

Yes like you Mac I think after the last few months every regular on this forum is very watchful.

by obiwan Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:44 am

I agree with Mac. It is polite to introduce oneself and explain one's motive for posting/joining the website. Since it is possible to read the forum without joining this is perhaps even more the case.

If the motive is genuine, there can be no harm in this and it helps other to understand the posters 'angle' on things.

by Admin Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:15 am

TheCanuckian wrote:. mac's claims I don't care about.

Just this bit of a quote. Obi I agree with you that a new poster should find no trouble in responding to us. Now this poster is posting from an Ontario IP address so appears to be Canadian. However I take Macs points about the ongoing pursuit of him by MU!! or is it MU!! or Forests or Eveshi or Rammaq or whoever; the posts elsewhere indicate a group of different people often commandeering other peoples chosen names; reading the posts they try to discredit the real people elsewhere. Now MU!! frequently posted from different IP's around the world but most frequently through Canada.

So Canuckian your point

mac's claims I don't care about

worries me quite a lot and I think you should share more about who you are and why you are here.

by obiwan Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:41 am

I'm not sure IP addresses are necessarily a good indicator of location for the determined offender Smile

See below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address_spoofing

by mac Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:55 am

Since my recent, unwanted exposure to the world of trolls etc. I've learned from others more knowledgeable that an IP address isn't necessarily a guide to a user's geographical location.... And successful trolls are, of course, masters of disguise.

Nonetheless the avatar used by this new member suggests a North American association (which could be deliberately misleading!) and the general demeanour of this new member still leaves me suspicious about his/her reasons for visiting this Spiritualist website.

Maybe the member will want to calm all our concerns by explaining his/her approach? and maybe not....

by TheCanuckian Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:56 pm

obiwan wrote: It is polite to introduce oneself and explain one's motive for posting/joining the website. Since it is possible to read the forum without joining this is perhaps even more the case.

If the motive is genuine, there can be no harm in this and it helps other to understand the posters 'angle' on things.

The forum hasn't had a new post in a few days, I was trying to help it out not turn this into a "Quiz The Canuck" newbie session.

My bad. pale

by TheCanuckian Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:58 pm

Admin wrote:Interesting, in the past we have had several people on here who have been in trouble on PM4U over their comments on mediums who have clearly been caught out or even have admitted fraud.

They know I posted this here. No problems.

by obiwan Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:59 pm

TheCanuckian wrote:
obiwan wrote: It is polite to introduce oneself and explain one's motive for posting/joining the website. Since it is possible to read the forum without joining this is perhaps even more the case.

If the motive is genuine, there can be no harm in this and it helps other to understand the posters 'angle' on things.
The forum hasn't had a new post in a few days, I was trying to help it out not turn this into a "Quiz The Canuck" newbie session.

My bad.

Point still stands really. Pouting isn't a good look.

by mac Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:38 am

Trying to help the forum out?

One wonders why he thought it needed help anyway but also why he thought that would happen by posting a piece stolen from another website. Rolling Eyes

If he has something interesting to say, I'm confident we'll be happy to listen and maybe respond. That's how forums work best.

by TheCanuckian Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:21 pm

Edited out by Admin Chris Howarth Called Out As A Fraud Yellow10

by Admin Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:10 am

It appears that our Canuckian is here to pursue mac not take an interest in the forum. I note his first post on this thread laid down a marker to that.

Looks like one of the trolls purporting to be mac may have upset him. Sagly like some of the other misguided people who trolled us on here and me personally they will eventually find it is just another troublemaker who's purpose in life seems to be to create internet nastiness and dissent.

by Blackcrow Wed May 15, 2013 12:13 pm

I dont know about the said medium.but i have seen mediums who have had plants in the audience one medium in particular he says he is also a trance medium but i have never seen him do that,i saw him twice just to double check that i was correct in what i said.and again he went straight to the same ppl said the same thing about one person who.he says identified his guide.
he had a lot of misses and i think about three hits he apparently does cruises in the winter time.
my daughter is friends with someone whos uncle is well known here he did a performance near me a fortnight ago.he said that he has just started doing telivision work .he didnt say where but he was shocked how much the shows are eddited before they are shown.he is a good medium down to earth puts a lot of humour into his work

Namaste

by Admin Wed May 15, 2013 11:35 pm

Good points Blackcrow, I understood that there was a lot of editing and as to the fraud you witnessed sadly it goes on.

by Blackcrow Thu May 16, 2013 8:36 pm

Yes it does and as a charge price of £25 its not cheap either.

by LeroyC Wed May 22, 2013 3:24 pm

Hi everyone,

This news is very sad. I DO know the medium and have always found him to be a great guy. Problem is I do think Chris is deluded. Yes, I have sat with him, and to be honest I thought it would only be a question of time before this topic was aired.

I did not detect such things when I sat, but as is often the case, there was no evidence. I am afraid once was enough and I mustered as much tact as possible and made little comment.

Unfortunately Chris has also been much in support of a particular Scandinavian medium, whom also was caught out in deliberate fraud.

This is not Spiritualism or anything to do with survival. As for Mr Foy, for someone who claims such knowledge and experience he shopuld be re-evaluating his stance. It seems anything goes on PM4U, which is why, I for one now have nothing to do with it.

By the way the comment regarding 'dark seances' is intreresting. I would not conclude that because a seance is held in the dark that faud will always take place, and I am sure that this is not implied. Leslie Flint sat in the dark, and its a fact that some types of physical mediumship, or mediums, can only function in such an environment.

To get back to the point. Its a sad day for mediumship when we keep hearing about such sharp practices. I hope Chris can re-evaluate what he is trying to do, and most of all stop having delusions about becoming a professional medium !

LeroyC

by Admin Thu May 23, 2013 12:06 am

Thanks Leroy your contributions are much appreciated and I very much agree with the points you make.

by Jane Lyzell Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:59 pm

Here we goo aghen - another froude and probebly not the last..... Mad

by Joangelwhisper1111 Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:46 pm

Would like to add to this thread I have sat in chris circle for 6 months now and I assure you he is no fraud we will be doing public seances very soon come make your mind up and be amazed much love Joanne

by Admin Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:44 am

Hi Joanne,

Sadly, despite the compelling evidence, those in Gary Mannion's circle still say he is not a fraud, in a similar way to circle members in the other circle's where evidence has come out of fraud. Its a tough area but I have had another report, from a source I trust, about problems with Chris Howarth, indeed privately we sometimes even get critiques from other Physical mediums about each other, but these are unsubstantiated by evidence. Much would depend on the conditions that sittings take place, the light and the controls in use. The evidence or phenomena produced in the sitting would also need considering. For instance it is now clear, from Steven Braude, in addition to what is published on this forum from a variety of reliable sources, that Kai Muegge's Spirit Lights were him manipulating the D'Lite product which can be freely purchased on line.

by mac Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:41 am

Joangelwhisper1111 wrote:Would like to add to this thread I have sat in chris circle for 6 months now and I assure you he is no fraud we will be doing public seances very soon come make your mind up and be amazed much love Joanne

Perhaps when he sits in his own small group his mediumship is sound. We haven't been with you to form our own judgments about that but sadly your own assurance might not be sufficient for many of us.

When public demonstrations do take place, as you're suggesting they will, there will be opportunities for objective sitters to reach their own conclusions. My expectation, though, is that if amazement is the reaction of the more discerning and experienced ones, it may not be the positive thing implied.

But let's not pre-judge and let's just wait until sufficient public seances have taken place.

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