Spirit of PN Reincarnation Debate

Lots of good debate going on here, some very informed thinking

http://spiritofpn.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/for-and-against-reincarnation/

Hi
My first time here.

I do believe in reincarnation. I have read several articles about mediums and their discussions with people on the other side. I also read the books Michael Newton wrote on reincarnation.

I believe that we need to learn things here on earth that we cant learn in the spirit. In the spirit we dont need food and shelter. Needing those things would cause us to act very differently. As an example if we live an easy life with plenty of food and shelter, it would be easy to believe in God. But, in some countries where they have loved one die or are starving, or live in war torn countries where their lives are always at risk their belief could be very different. If one who lives in a very trying time doesnt believe in God and ends up being a miserable or cruel person and we can not understand that situation, we might need to reincarnate to understand that better.

Another example would be if a person lived in a very sheltered life and was surrounded by love at all times, that person might not understand true love if that person never experienced any hate at all.

I think that we need to understand both negative and positive sides of a siutation to really learn and understand.

From the materials I have read that came from mediums communicating with others on the other side they seem to think reincarnation is possible. I think the ones mediums talk to are from the lower end of the spheres where they are still learning. It is possible that reincarnation comes from much higher up. From reading the materials, the ones on the other sides do not seem to totally know everything and warn us about that.

The thing I always think about is that will this earth always be like it is. Bad and good. If everyone all of a sudden turned to 100 percent love then maybe we might not learn all that is need to experience on this earth to be able to keep on ascending to higher spheres.

Hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Kahlon

Indeed Kahlon.
Reincarnation - the idea in itself raises many questions - does seem to offer explanation to many of the puzzles we meet in Life.
For example, if we must learn by experience and this is our only outing in Life, where did the gifted individual obtain their innate knowledge? Or the savant, ill equipped as they are to learn anything, yet possessing extremely developed abilities, often in advanced (by our standards) artistic ways?
Or the competent Medium?

If we remember that 'here on Earth' is also an integral part of the 'Spirit World' and that the apparent seperation is a temporary, physical one - Mind and Soul are not subject to physical boundaries and of course we are informed that the Spirit World is composed of an infinite number of spheres - just as we have on Earth - then the concept of reincarnation takes on different complexities which appear to be governed by our own current understanding. We are also told that this place is the shadow of reality and not real in itself.

A fruitful field of thought offering as it does, great scope for Mind to explore.

Hi Hirota
This belief allows me to be more patient with others, even though sometimes I am hurt by others. It allows me to sit quietly and think about what I am suppose to learn by this experience. Maybe even to listen and be their to help if needed.

It is awesome to watch these peoples who have their great gifts in life. I even read about the Indigo children and wonder where this is going down the road in a few years. Will earth slide into a more spiritual and more to the path of learning to heal ourselves and healing others rather than the path of chemical meds.

Kahlon

"I even read about the Indigo children and wonder where this is going down the road in a few years. Will earth slide into a more spiritual and more to the path of learning to heal ourselves and healing others rather than the path of chemical meds."

The issue of the so-called indigos is one I find far from convincing. Much talk, little evidence.

But it's a fair assumption that things will change in the years ahead and that the overall spiritual evolvement of humankind will steadily move forward. It's been doing that for centuries, millennia, past.

There is, however, a forecast 9 billion global population, the potential for huge climate and environmental changes, the likelihood of resource and energy shortages. Just some of the many new problems our world will need to deal with. Practical issues to which spiritual ones may have to take second place in order to stay alive.

As we discuss and debate spiritual issues such as reincarnation I'm mindful that for millions of the world's populations spiritual issues mean diddly squat. Just getting through the day, feeding their kids, maintaining a home of some kind stretches many to the limit of their abilities - even in affluent western countries and more so where living is subsistence.

There will have to be a sea-change in the way this earth and its inhabitants live before it moves into whatever phase indicates a major shift in spiritual values, learning to heal etc. as mentioned.

That may be many centuries ahead during which time new philosophies, new insights into spiritual matters are likely to have replaced the already outdated beliefs and religions of today.

Hi Mac

Yes things look very gloomy out there right now. I see the possibility of a population decrease with the poisoning of our earth going on. The oil spills, corexit chemicals, radiation poisoning and du poisoning going on. The gm foods and disappearing of the bees. How long can people and plants on this earth last with all that going on. One day all those oil wells they have sitting in the oceans will fall apart which could be very soon. So maybe this earth will not have to worry about 9 billion people living on it. Science has shown that there has been several extinctions on it.

One can only wait and see what happens, but I am hoping for a new spiritual movement to be introduced much sooner than centuries into the future.

Kahlon

"One can only wait and see what happens, but I am hoping for a new spiritual movement to be introduced much sooner than centuries into the future."

I expect you're in the company of many who are hoping/expecting that - even I would like to see it! But I'm a pragmatist and I'm not expecting any such thing.

Certain groups having been expecting for ages that a new Messiah will come. For the 20 odd years I've been around the spooks there have been annual promises that something big is 'just around the corner'. It seems it's a big corner and the 'something' is taking a long time to get round it! I won't be holding my breath.

And having said that I feel certain - but quite sad - that the Modern Spiritualism movement has had its day. Things will tick over at a very low level of interest within Spiritualism but I predict the New Age movement will continue to become ever more popular, its adherents claiming to be inspired by personal gurus, angels and archangels with ascended masters' guidance being channelled by the near-equivalent of mediums. From what is said it appears it will be an age of direct personal enlightenment.

The new spiritual movement you're hoping for perhaps?

""When the pupil is ready the Teacher will appear"

Whatever sort of society is desired, it looks to be a do-it-yourself arrangement.
Then Attraction might just kick in.

I know with the situation in this world that it can be worrisome and even fearful. I try to live in the positive and in "The Love" as some call it to keep vibrations higher. We can make some change yes, maybe not noticeable as we like, but every little bit helps.

I also think we can be more open and sharing with people and even risk people saying things like "I have friends that lick windows and you can be also" lol. That happened to me once. But I still keep sharing. There is this web site ...http://www.victorzammit.com/ that works hard at proving to people about the spiritual world.

I think you'll find that VZ is not highly regarded here....

True Mac, Kahlon we know that site and its owner quite well. TheSpirit world that VZ pursues is wide and at times different. However, he never claims to be a Spiritualist.

However he does fight for evidence for survival.

"However he does fight for evidence for survival." And that's commendable except that it's re-inventing the wheel somewhat.

If by the second century of the existence of the Modern Spiritualism movement there hasn't been demonstrated, via mediumship, sufficient evidence of our survival beyond physical death then I don't know how much more is needed.

What else new is there left to discover one might ask?

Absolutely Mac and quite often lifting and posting from other areas and grouping it together. I know that this must often be without attribution because several things have been removed.

I try and ensure the source of material on here is identified and a link given to follow up personally.

There is so much proof the real question is why are there those who do not believe.

"There is so much proof the real question is why are there those who do not believe."

I suspect you won't agree with my stance that the Modern Spiritualism movement has run its course but your sentence, Jim, really nails why that might be so.

After all the effort that had been put in over the many years, when mediumship was so very much better than anything presently being demonstrated, I'd think our unseen friends might conclude that if folks haven't picked up the survival message by now, then they ain't gonna pick up the message at all - at least not through the Spiritualism / evidential medium partnership.

hiorta wrote:""When the pupil is ready the Teacher will appear"

Whatever sort of society is desired, it looks to be a do-it-yourself arrangement.
Then Attraction might just kick in.

"Whatever sort of society is desired, it looks to be a do-it-yourself arrangement." What leads you to that conclusion, hiorta?

Hi mac. It was in response to Kahlon's views, which I took to mean that the Spirit World would take a more prominent role in sorting earth problems - if I read it correctly.

This is our planet, how we arrange our in-dwelling worlds on it is entirely in our own hands. I still take the view that Old Mother Earth is a fantastic schoolroom as all aboard get the daily lesson tailored exactly to their needs.
As I understand things, we are only entitled to seek outside help when we have tried all in our power to remedy our perceived difficulties (lessons). Guidance though, is always available. How else could we grow?

hiorta wrote:Hi mac. It was in response to Kahlon's views, which I took to mean that the Spirit World would take a more prominent role in sorting earth problems - if I read it correctly.

This is our planet, how we arrange our in-dwelling worlds on it is entirely in our own hands. I still take the view that Old Mother Earth is a fantastic schoolroom as all aboard get the daily lesson tailored exactly to their needs.
As I understand things, we are only entitled to seek outside help when we have tried all in our power to remedy our perceived difficulties (lessons). Guidance though, is always available. How else could we grow?

Ah I follow now - thank, hiorta. I agree with you.

Of interest: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/08/22/china-bans-reincarnation-_n_61444.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

Similar to what occurred years ago with the Russian Orthodox Church. Orthodox Russians outside the Soviet Union regarded the titular head of the Church therein as a stooge of the Communist government, and refused to recognize his authority. Something similar will probably happen with the Tibetan Buddhists.

I really wish the Western World would recognize that China is ruled by a totalitarian fascist cadre and that we're handing them the world on a silver platter. Let them keep their contaminated dry-wall and other junk they sell us. And Coca-Cola and McDonald's can get along just fine without any outlets there.

They've got most of our money as we've bought most of their cr*p.
Top Gear UK was in China recently and reckon next big thing here will be Chinese built cars for half the price of what we pay for what we have now.
Time was we built stuff here. Now we buy it in.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. It's all Wong.
Reason we only had two kids was that the first Mrs K read somewhere that every third child born into the World was Chinese!

Years ago when teh world was worried about the military threat of China my Dad laughed about it. He was first sent to China as a 15 year old boy buglar in 1926. Ended up at a senior level in the army.

He told me many years ago, as a result of his experiences, that the Chinese were such good traders they would never have to fight to take charge of the world they would just acquire it. i suspect that they own most of it by now.

Bad thing or good thing who knows, it looks like our choices may be an Islamic World or a Chinese one. In neither would there be reincarnation.

No but we'd have cracking curries and really cheap electrical goods. They teach Cantonese as a language option from Primary in some education authorities over here.
I reckon us post war & 1950s baby boomers have had about the best of it Jim.

I think we may have, my son has started to learn Chinese for fun now...well maybe not fun working for Merrill Lynch he may get an option to have a spell in either Hong Kong Or Singapore. Our Australian Godson is from a Chinese background and runs teh wine institutes of Hong Kong & of Shanghai also Christies fine wine representative for China.

That's where the money is. Good luck to them as can make it.
Bed time. I was out for 7am and working til 9 pm.
Day off tomorrow though.
:-)

KatyKing wrote:
Reason we only had two kids was that the first Mrs K read somewhere that every third child born into the World was Chinese!

Jim