Lily Dale and Camp Chesterfield

Anyone ever been to Lily Dale and Camp Chesterfield, thinking of going to visit one of them next year 2012. Anyone like to share some thoughts.

I havent been to Lily Dale however I do know a few folk who are residents there.

What I like about the place (according to what I have been told by them) is that they really do test their mediums. I believe they have to undergo quite a long period in which they demonstrate in the daylight to numerous sitters.

There is no physical mediumship done there to my knowledge.

Anyone who does not 'come up to scratch' so to speak are not invited back.

I do think this is a great idea, there are far too many folk who think they are mediums when actually they really are not.

autumnlady wrote:I havent been to Lily Dale however I do know a few folk who are residents there.

What I like about the place (according to what I have been told by them) is that they really do test their mediums. I believe they have to undergo quite a long period in which they demonstrate in the daylight to numerous sitters.

There is no physical mediumship done there to my knowledge.

Anyone who does not 'come up to scratch' so to speak are not invited back.

I do think this is a great idea, there are far too many folk who think they are mediums when actually they really are not.

I have seen some of the Lily Dale and Camp Chesterfield medium's demonstrate mental mediumship, and in all honesty they don’t deliver – not frauds – but incompetent mediums. I personally believe British mediums are among the best in the world for survival evidence, so are Irish medium's, the likes of Eileen Garrett, Albert Best, David Young to name a few.

I have spoken with some who have had sittings with Lily Dale medium's, they tend to make alot of predictions about the future and tell you the colour of your aura and so on, that doesn't prove survival.

But I am sure it's a great place, a place steeped in spiritualistic history and one day soon I hope to visit it

You make a valid point Azur. In fact the folks I know there talked about the difference in mediumship in the USA to that in the UK. They did indeed say that their delivery was quicker and tended to be predictive with the medium only staying with the recipient for a very short time usually giving only three bits of evidence.

I like you would love to visit there and in fact have been invited over next year. Shame the plane fare is a tad expensive and I hate flying anyway!

autumnlady wrote:You make a valid point Azur. In fact the folks I know there talked about the difference in mediumship in the USA to that in the UK. They did indeed say that their delivery was quicker and tended to be predictive with the medium only staying with the recipient for a very short time usually giving only three bits of evidence.

I like you would love to visit there and in fact have been invited over next year. Shame the plane fare is a tad expensive and I hate flying anyway!

It's not really of a high standard in America, very different than over here. If you notice a medium talking fast or on a roll, it's generally due to the fact they are in the power, I have seen it alot of times, if a medium stops they tend to lose the contact and the power drops, but trained medium's can pull the contact back in and the power rises again, it's fascinating to watch medium's and how the work with the power.

Gordon Higginson could hold three spirit contacts at the one time and keep going back and forth to the three recipients in the audience, that was survival mediumship at it's finest.

And I hate flying also !!

Its interesting one of the finest of the USA Mediums Rev Anne Gehman, one of the "After Life Experiments" mediums came to visit us and she worked in the same way we are used to. Her ten days with us was entirely memorable.

I think there are variations in the USA which are exacerbated by the distances between churches and difficulty in exchanging Mediums..shades of Oz. I also believe you are seeing a similar diminuition of standars which directly relates to the lack of training within good circles. These circles, not AFC courses were, of course, where the great Mediums trained and developed.

Jim

Admin wrote:Its interesting one of the finest of the USA Mediums Rev Anne Gehman, one of the "After Life Experiments" mediums came to visit us and she worked in the same way we are used to. Her ten days with us was entirely memorable.

I think there are variations in the USA which are exacerbated by the distances between churches and difficulty in exchanging Mediums..shades of Oz. I also believe you are seeing a similar diminuition of standars which directly relates to the lack of training within good circles. These circles, not AFC courses were, of course, where the great Mediums trained and developed.

Jim

I agree Jim, well said. And yes Anne Gehman I seen her once but on television she was doing experiments think it was with the Afterlife programme you mentioned, it was screened for HBO, and I was very impressed, and she also comes across as very grounded.

George Anderson is good, but can't understand the fees he charges, $1,200

I agree all the great medium's sat in home circles, many years ago they sat in a number of home circles that ran on different nights, how dedicated was that. Now we get people doing a week's course at AFC, and they think they are mediums.

Azur wrote:

Admin wrote:Its interesting one of the finest of the USA Mediums Rev Anne Gehman, one of the "After Life Experiments" mediums came to visit us and she worked in the same way we are used to. Her ten days with us was entirely memorable.

I think there are variations in the USA which are exacerbated by the distances between churches and difficulty in exchanging Mediums..shades of Oz. I also believe you are seeing a similar diminuition of standars which directly relates to the lack of training within good circles. These circles, not AFC courses were, of course, where the great Mediums trained and developed.

Jim

I agree Jim, well said. And yes Anne Gehman I seen her once but on television she was doing experiments think it was with the Afterlife programme you mentioned, it was screened for HBO, and I was very impressed, and she also comes across as very grounded.


George Anderson is good, but can't understand the fees he charges, $1,200

I agree all the great medium's sat in home circles, many years ago they sat in a number of home circles that ran on different nights, how dedicated was that. Now we get people doing a week's course at AFC, and they think they are mediums.

I can only agree - we need more dedicated mediums.

"I can only agree - we need more dedicated mediums."

And fewer psychics thinking/pretending they're mediums.

surely if the interest in spirit communication is there, then instead of travelling the globe in search of the perfect medium and creating negativity by criticizing each one that doesn't come up to scratch, would it not be more beneficial to all to not listen to mediums but listen to spirit. Sit with like minded friends or sit alone, if you're drawn to this subject then you have something which will benefit it. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to become a medium but you can sit for someone else, give them positive energies, become a circle leader...yes we need more dedicated mediums but we also need dedicated circle leaders and sitters, you'll get far more out of doing that than chasing mediums...

nick pettitt wrote:surely if the interest in spirit communication is there, then instead of travelling the globe in search of the perfect medium and creating negativity by criticizing each one that doesn't come up to scratch, would it not be more beneficial to all to not listen to mediums but listen to spirit. Sit with like minded friends or sit alone, if you're drawn to this subject then you have something which will benefit it. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to become a medium but you can sit for someone else, give them positive energies, become a circle leader...yes we need more dedicated mediums but we also need dedicated circle leaders and sitters, you'll get far more out of doing that than chasing mediums...

They should have asked Ivy Northage to train them

No I wasn't being negative, I was saying survival mediumship is of a much higher standard in the UK then it is in America.

I know a few people who sit in America for the unfoldment of mediumship, and have said they don't get the training like those in the UK.

I wasn't creating negativity just stating the facts. There is always room for the flower to grow.

There is always room for the flower to grow

and grow it will if you try. The training group we have is going very well just allow time and good teaching.

By the way Azur from what two certifed NSAC Mediums have told me not much has changed at Camp Chesterfield since the Psychic Observer/Psychic Mafia exposes. Now someone attending the place could check this out by generally talking about some fictitious deceased relative and seeing if she appears to them as they attend events.

I would probably pass that one by, a recent visitor has told me about a couple of other camps which he thinks are great.

nick pettitt wrote:surely if the interest in spirit communication is there, then instead of travelling the globe in search of the perfect medium and creating negativity by criticizing each one that doesn't come up to scratch, would it not be more beneficial to all to not listen to mediums but listen to spirit. Sit with like minded friends or sit alone, if you're drawn to this subject then you have something which will benefit it. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to become a medium but you can sit for someone else, give them positive energies, become a circle leader...yes we need more dedicated mediums but we also need dedicated circle leaders and sitters, you'll get far more out of doing that than chasing mediums...

Hi Nick
We who are on this forum may get more out of sitting in a circle but it is good Mediumship which is the cornerstone and difference of Spiritualism. It is what the bereaved enter our centres to see, it is one of the most compelling things to witness, wnen done well and it is the first thing that can persuade people that Spiritualism is worth looking at as a life philosophy. I went to a Spiritualist Church, Ilford Church, for the first time just after I met Lis, who was then an experienced Medium working for 28 churches on the East London circuit. I never went to receive a message but the one I did was an absolute beauty which converted me to Spiritualism and changed my life in many ways. 28 years on I am facilitating peoples development, working as a platform Medium and speaker, doing healing, a regular contributor to the old Psychic News plus Spirit of PN and yes the leader of a centre. All started, yes in a major part because I married a Medium but also because that one message convinced me this was very real.

In those days, 1984, you could go to almost any church and see on any Sunday good Mediumship. The Mediums also got feedback in the week after their demonstration about how they went, they did not regard this as negative criticism they regarded it as a necessity to guide their development. We have to be able to talk about these issues or else the drop in standards will go into free fall.

Spiritualism is described as a belief, a philosophy and a truth. At one time it claimed to be a science but it gave up its own attempts at scientifically proving Mediumship. In part that was because of the howls of protest about possible negativity, criticism or bring seen to suggest to outsiders that everyone may not be genuine. There is no research currently being undertaken into Mediumship and as a body the modern Physical Mediums seem to reject research most vehemently.

We are very much at risk of being unable to claim it is still a truth because of the falling standards of mediumship. I am unprepared to just go down the path of saying its OK, at least they are trying, we have to persuade our workers to work on development and take the standards back to the 1980's. Oh By the way the late 1970's to 1980's saw the highest ever levels of membership in the SNU. Good Mediumship attracts people and challenges thinkers to look at the movement more seriously. Psychic platform work just drives the thinkers and bereaved away.

I know of far to many serious elder Spiritualists who can no longer be bothered with our movement because of the falling standards of talks and mediumship. Personally if I was not so deeply involved I think my attendances would be reduced significantly. Then of course to be a Spiritualist is a state of mind more than it is a Church Religion, or a weekly visit.

Jim

I went to a Spiritualist Church, Ilford Church, for the first time just after I met Lis, who was then an experienced Medium working for 28 churches on the East London circuit. I never went to receive a message but the one I did was an absolute beauty which converted me to Spiritualism and changed my life in many ways. 28 years on I am facilitating peoples development, working as a platform Medium and speaker, doing healing, a regular contributor to the old Psychic News plus Spirit of PN and yes the leader of a centre. All started, yes in a major part because I married a Medium but also because that one message convinced me this was very real.

Now that is spirit orchestration at it's finest !!

Admin wrote:By the way Azur from what two certifed NSAC Mediums have told me not much has changed at Camp Chesterfield since the Psychic Observer/Psychic Mafia exposes. Now someone attending the place could check this out by generally talking about some fictitious deceased relative and seeing if she appears to them as they attend events.

I would probably pass that one by, a recent visitor has told me about a couple of other camps which he thinks are great.

Very true, it's all about dedication and service Jim, I am sure you'll agree.


What happens when you force the flower, you destroy it. And that is what is happening how a days, people are forcing phenomena, forcing the gifts of spirit, when it's suppose to unfold naturally.

The flower needs water and care for nourishment, or else it'll wither !!

People don't need to travel to venues to attend workshops or courses at the AFC. The foundation to good mediumship starts in the home circle.

There was no Arthur Findlay College or schools of mediumship during the days of Estelle Roberts, Helen Hughes, Bertha Harris, Joe Benjamin, Albert Best and so on (all great mediums)

It all began in the home circle

Azur wrote:People don't need to travel to venues to attend workshops or courses at the AFC. The foundation to good mediumship starts in the home circle.

There was no Arthur Findlay College or schools of mediumship during the days of Estelle Roberts, Helen Hughes, Bertha Harris, Joe Benjamin, Albert Best and so on (all great mediums)

It all began in the home circle

Couldn't agree more, Azur. I've been banging this particular drum for years.

Azur wrote:People don't need to travel to venues to attend workshops or courses at the AFC. The foundation to good mediumship starts in the home circle.

There was no Arthur Findlay College or schools of mediumship during the days of Estelle Roberts, Helen Hughes, Bertha Harris, Joe Benjamin, Albert Best and so on (all great mediums)

It all began in the home circle

spot on Azur...., sit in the home circle, create the loving harmonious conditions, and spirit will come with as much teaching as is required, a true school of mediumship...

I grew up in the Dale and live here now with my own family. While it is true that mediumship, in general, has been less than stellar, nonetheless good to excellent mediums can still be found here. The key is, of course, proof of survival. Which is why I categorize mediums as mediums or Spiritualist mediums.
I'm not sure I like the claim that UK mediums are superior as the claim itself is counter to the Spiritualist philosophy of ego control. I'm sure you have many very good mediums. That's all that really needs to be said.
Home circles are the are the cornerstone of Spiritualism, as far as I am concerned. My wife and I are fortunate to belong to a great one. I think perhaps more people should be attending circle and maybe fewer classes and other formalized training. Circle is where spirit truly is at.
Finally, my mother owned the Psychic Observer at one time and I remember her recounting the Chesterfield expose. I, personally, see no purpose for physical mediumship. It proves nothing really.

Thanks Breuther for your comments and welcome to teh forum.

Jim

No purpose for physical mediumship? I could be wrong here but isn't Independent Voice a form of physical mediumship? If so, and if that statement includes the Independent Direct Voice then I don't understand how there can be no purpose in it?

I think that Breuther is really referring to the current vogue in dark seances obi. Mark you is there much worthwhile direct voice Mediumship currently available?